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Post by bookemdanno on May 14, 2012 12:11:21 GMT
Turkey with regards your concerns about room at the front. I know it may be going backwards a bit but you could take those 3x firebricks out from the front of the dome (entrance floor), then remove the bricks from above the base arch and re-lay them stepped out an inch or two (like corballed eaves), and rebuild to where you now are, which may gain a bit more entrance space?
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Post by turkey on May 23, 2012 10:07:52 GMT
I must have read this about 5 times and its only just clicked as to what you mean exactly.... I think that is a great idea, I didn't do it and just let the arch walls I built overhang, but I can see that with this overhang I will probably need to afix some bricks below it somehow to make it look better, I might as well do all the way round the front and get a bit more space, luckily the front bricks are only held with sand and fireclay so can easily be lifted to perform later customization
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Post by bookemdanno on May 23, 2012 12:04:07 GMT
probly mor ta doo wiv my gramma and Inglish than nuffin else!
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Post by mart321 on May 28, 2012 13:09:11 GMT
This build is excellent. im about to attempt my first build and its going to be a corner jobbie like this. Have u got any tips or pointers in regards to the base. i have most of the materials. but no rebar. is this essential in both the foundation and the top slab. how many breeze blocks did you use by the way mate. and last but not least would you make any significant changes in the design/construction if u were to do it again. ??
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Post by turkey on May 28, 2012 16:14:59 GMT
HI There, well I hope the diary deails my errors as much as my sucesses. The first thing I would say regarding the base is make sure its square and true. Mine was not and the corner cutting causes an escilation of problems, each time it rears its head its more complicated so I would make the extra effort to make the base as true as possible. Thigs like making the walls was harder as it was at an angle, fitting my breeeze block insulation again at an angle, finding the mid point of the bearth again more difficilt that it need be. I would also advise making the base slightly larger than I did, and specifically making the diagonal part larger as atm its quite a tight hole to load / remove wood supplies from. Also its made the enterance quite short and stubby and overhanging which caused structual issues (post still to come). You dont need rebar for the base but if you have none I would make it a little thicker, als dont forget some damp proofing. For the hearth I think rebar is a wise idea, or reenforcement mesh as I used. You can use the beam and block flooring syste, tho that will take the weight, thats quick and easy to fit but might cost a little more, if you factor your own time and lack of cement mixer requirements it might be an attractive option. I plan to get a post up with the dimensions and counts of things for folks to look at. I used medium density blocks for the base walls, and breeeze blocks for the under hearth insulation. I will try to count these for you. re design changes, I would have made the oven further back giving more enterace room, I think I would also have tried to plan a little more carefully, each stage so far has had about 5 mins of pen and pencil work on a scrap pad and then ploughed in. I have read a lot so its not pure guesswork but I would be lying if I said there was a strict plan. I will think further and see if anything comes to mind, its not finnished yet so no doubt I will have more cursing to come
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Post by cannyfradock on May 28, 2012 17:08:23 GMT
Turkey
I touch my forelocks to you Sir in sharing your build with us. You haven't just passed on the easy bits, but highlighted the awkward bits which will be invaluable to people who are following your build and are....just about to begin their own project.
I missed the snag with the limited space at the entrance...Hope you got that bit sorted......if not, I will be at the Trumans brewery next Saturday......and the following week-end. If you're about we can thrash this out.
Love your thread....
Terry
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Post by mart321 on May 28, 2012 20:29:17 GMT
turkey, all good advice, cheers. how do i go about doing the damp proofing, do i just put something between the bricks and breeze blocks, ballast or something???
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Post by turkey on Jun 5, 2012 15:51:46 GMT
Sorry i missed that last q, for the damp proofing you can put a thin layer of sand over the hardcore to remove sharp bits, then lay the plastic to make a waterproof seal and pour the slab. Once done inder the blocks and bricks you put a plasticl sheet to stop moisture siaking up the structure, youtube probably has very good instructional videos on this as its standard for shed bases or just building a wall. I didnt do it and wish I had. I have not forgotten folks have asked for sizes and to count the blocks used, I will climb in and count dont worry. But I also have some updates, I have formed the enterance arch and really deliberated over how to secure the flue to the brickwork. A proper anchor was looking like a lot of cash so I am going to try a home made equivelent. I have make a nice flat part to mount it to, and whilst doing this I made a card template of the two walls of the flue, this allowed me to plan its placement and also work out what bricks I needed to shave to make a smooth transition. Once this was done I drew around this template to show where the flue will sit, and I have placed small brick teeth onto the flat surface, I am hoping to fill the small void in the flue with homebrew mix and rest it down onto the teeth and this should stand upright. I will then build a small retaining wall round it and back fill with either homebrew or vermicrete, un decided yet, hopefully that will then hold it secure. is the flue mounting area, to make this more troublesome just as I was putting stuff away I knocked the flue over so this then bend the end so I have tried to reform it to the circle it was, but we shall see.... Its open at the front to make it easier to work on the flue as it goes on, once on this will get a thin face brick and some angled side bricks to make a well to back fill. Thats the plan anyhow lol. here is the inside shot looking up at the chimney hole, not perfectly smooth by any means and I might mortar it smooth later but atm just wanted it to dry secure. you can see I managed to cover it all with ceramic fibre, I uses 7.3 meters of 610 wide 25mm deep 128 kg/m3 stuff. It seemed to be the exact side. the top cover was not quite wide enough but you have to make slits and overlap for the side covering to fit so I just trimmed these overlaps to fill the void, its pretty pliable stuff. Then wrapped with chicken wire. This was a little baggy so where it did not fit I grabbed a hexagon and twisted the mettal to shorten it, this allowed me to tighten it up fairly well. I have started to render with vermicrete today but atm thats been rained off so posting updates. This is not as bad as I thought, but the chicken wire if not 100% tight flexes when you place it on and then when you move to do the next stop it acts as a cantilever and breaks the previous part off, well its only fallen down once so far. I think it might be best to try to get a good solid rim at the base and let it dry and then go from there, as once you get onto the dome proper gravity will assist you rather than fight you.
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Post by bookemdanno on Jun 6, 2012 12:20:29 GMT
That looks amazing Turkey, well done! Very tidy work on that outer arch and chimney transition.
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Post by faz on Jun 6, 2012 17:25:23 GMT
Yes I like the arch too - I may have to 'borrow' some of your design features when I build mine, hopefully at the weekend
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Post by mart321 on Jun 8, 2012 11:23:30 GMT
I have now started work on mine. ive dug a hole about 4 inches down about 1.7 metres i have also cut one of the corners off diagonally for the entrance to save a bit of digging and for appearances. My brother in law has managed to snag me a 1.2 metre lintel but i was going to usr breeze blocks 440mm long in the same way as turkey so it will be a bit small so i might have to have some breeze blocks facing inward in the centr to try pick up the lintel. i also have some plastic sheeting from where i dug the hole so i am planning on doing thin layer of ballast then sand followed by sheet then concrete. one other thing. my oven is going to be about a metre away from a small tree. will this be an issue? There was a few roots and what not that i removed when digging. will the damp proof stop them coming through and crackkng the base in future
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Post by bookemdanno on Jun 8, 2012 12:13:12 GMT
Hi Mart321, why not start a new thread for your build now?
Have you thought about setting some of those large 2'x3' x2" thick council paving slabs to pick up the lintel, then settling your Thermolites onto that?
I doubt the roots will come throught the base, but they may affect the base in time from growing too large and moving the underlying ground. Throw a section of A142 reinforcing mesh into the base and this should help spread the loadings and even out any movement in years to come.
Have a look at "A Suffolk Oven" which is my long standing build. I've only finished the base, but it sounds like your plans, and may help.
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Post by turkey on Jun 11, 2012 10:11:15 GMT
HI MArt321,
in my build I have a brick outer wall so the hearth is a little larger than my blockwork walls, although in truth there is no reason to not just build the retaining wall slightly smaller and then have the hearth slab overhang these walls slightly, it will require more wood form work to make the tray to cast in, but should not affect it structually. As you say you can always make a groin come out to take the lintel.
I have got the first full layer of vermicrete on there now and can say with confidence that my oven is pushing the limit of what can fit on my base, if it was not fence against the wall this would not be an issue but doing the next layer and render will be tight. I think your extra space will make a big difference for a 30" ish oven.
Also in all honesty the space under this oven is like a cavern, I will never fill it all with wood so it would not make a massive difference if part of it was walled off to act as additional support for the hearth, this will be even more true with larger bases, so dont worry about "wasting" space under there unless you have specific needs.
I prommise to get the counts of blocks and such used (I had originally intended to keep and excel sheet of materials but that was quickly forgotten unfortunatly).
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Post by turkey on Jun 12, 2012 11:11:20 GMT
Update with Pics, I can only assume ceramic fibre blanket is a whole lot less scratchy if you have fur, Mr Fox must have spent all night and all day on the oven, covered from the rain and probably very toasty under paw I only made him move when it was clear his claws where tearing into the blanket. that was the state of play prior to my latest bash at "getting it done" to appease my otherwise loving wife. The first job was to carry on with the vermicrete rendering, this was pretty simple after I had got the lower base part rendered so the vertical sections where already set, the slight incline for the rest of the dome made it quite enjoyable, a few tubs worth dumped on top and spread out and even over the oven ready to dry and it was time for the chimney. The vermicrete is probably less than and inch thick or there abouts atm, it will get a second layer but I found if you do it thick you cant do it high as the weigh makes it collapse, now there is a better service to bind to the next layer can probably be full thickness, in my case not so thick as I only have 3/4 a bag left and tbh I think thats enough insulation with the fibre blanket...... time will tell of course. So onto the chimney, since i bent the flue my perfect templated "crown" was slightly off and needed re positioning and some parts that had come loose needed more cement. The flue between the twin walls has slightly over 1" channel between the skins, this picture is of the top, but the insulation is set back 1" at the bottom and retained with the same bars, this circular void was filled with fairly wet homebrew mix, This was lowerd onto the crown and as hoped the homebrew came spilling out slightly inside and out. This was smoothes round the rim to make a nice gas seal. Then I took some more homebrew and made a nice rim holding the flue in place. here you can see that the flue has a indent 1" up on the outer skin that is used to clamp one part to the next, I made sure I went over this to make a nice firm grip on the pipe. You can also see a angled brick on the side, that is the hight the brickwork will get to to be back filled as support. from here I could place the bricks I had cut round the pipe to make a U shaped retaining wall, in here i forced in any left over homebrew, covering back over a spacing brick I was using to mark the end of the vermicrete render at that point, and made sure it went down to the arch to tie it all together, then I was able to back fill the top with vermicrete and then smooth that back onto the dome to make sure its all well secured and insulated. here you can see from the side, a bit messy on the brickwork, but my hope is this should all act to keep the chimney secure, wind was on my mind as the gazebo that was keeping things dry finally succumbed to the wind and I returned home to find it in tatters just before starting this. A slight lip has been left from the vermicrete to the top of the firebrick, I am hoping that with the final render I can then make that a smooth transition, although in truth I have no idea how it will work out yet lol. here you should be able to see that gap a little (blurry as it just reached round the oven and snapped blind). and here is a final look of how it all came together, due to the flue getting bent and needed to be re adjusted its not longer as central on the base as hoped but I think only I would really notice this, its the little things you notice as you go a long but probably looks fine in photos.
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Post by bookemdanno on Jun 12, 2012 12:09:25 GMT
Doog yrev Turkey, very good. I like it! How's the back holding up, with all the reaching round the back? I'm already feeling mine, from laying the hearth bricks. Lots of bending out and down. I was worried about the aethstetics of a 200mm flue on mine, but yours looks just fine on a 30". Thank you!
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