sourdough/live yeast combo bread

[h12rpo]

I like the sourdough flavour but have to say the slightly rubbery texture of the crumb is not great for making sandwiches ( although unbeatable for toast). In search for the perfect crumb I tried using live yeast (10 grams) AND 100 grams of sourdough starter at 100% hydration.
There's lovely !

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[h12rpo]

Crust view

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[rivergirl]

That crumb looks lovely!! I still have not ventured into sourdough land......... Making my bread with a biga is as close as I have got

[faz]

That does look like a lovely crumb with a decent rise too.

I have 2 cultures on the go but haven't quite mastered the art of a really decent sourdough loaf yet. I think I might try beefing it up with a bit of normal yeast to give it a bit of a boost.

Rivergirl, you're welcome to some of my starters if you want to have a go at sourdough.

[rivergirl]

Thanks Faz!! Perhaps when I come over?? Could swap for some hazel shuzzings or a walnut plank if you fancy one!

[conic]

Wow, that bread looks even better than your last one, we need the full method ( dummies guide to h12rpo bred ) and I will make some.

RG, LOL should we start a swap shop thread.

Conic

[faz]

Rivergirl's Multicoloured SwapShop - hope you've got some dodgy jumpers like Noel

Let me know when you come over I'm sure we can sort something out.

[rivergirl]

No problems LOL. A swap shop thread would be a good idea!!!

[h12rpo]

Ok this is how I Do it

10 grams of live yeast dissolved in 320 grams of warm water in a mixing bowl
Add in 120 grams of 100% hydration sourdough starter and stir to dissolve
( doesnt matter if the starter has stopped bubbling or needs feeding )
Add 200 grams of (Allinson) seed and grain white flour
Add 300 grams of strong white bread flour.
Add 10 grams fine sea salt
Add glugg of olive oil (1 glugg = around 1 eggcup full)
Now combine by stirring with a fork.........(.I used to be all Paul Hollywood about it and use my hands but now I cant be arsed).
Combine till all comes together.......it should be quite well hydrated and rather sticky....looking at it you would say too sticky to knead. Do not keep mixing or try to knead it !
Cover the bowl with cling ( or just shove it in a bag for life and twist it closed like I do)
Leave to autolyse.
Check the dough in 45 mins.....it should be doubled in size, if not leave it for a while longer.
Fire up the oven on 200 degrees and get your empty cloche/dutch oven ( or le crusette casserole dish like me) in the oven.
STRETCH & FOLD
Stretch and fold the dough with wet hands
This is simply lifting up the far side of the dough whilst in the bowl stretching it up a coupl of inches and kind of flopping it back down over itself......turn the bowl 90 degrees and do it again..... Do this 4 times before putting the bowl back under the wrap....( back in the bag for life)
Leave for 1/2 hour .....then do another of the 4 stretch and fold routines
Leave for 1/2 and tip out dough onto oiled worktop
SHAPING
Grab the outsides of the dough, lift up slightly and place in centre.........a bit like the stretch and folds but every number on the clockface so about 12 rather than 4 and dont stretch upwards so much. When you done this once around, turn the whole dough over and do the swirl around thing with the edge of your palms to get tension in the top.
Place upside down in a well floured (i use rice flour but rye is good too) banetton and allow 1/2 hour to prove
Get the casserole dish out of oven .....plop the bread in, slash top, replace casserole lid and get it in the oven for 25 mins
Remove top of casserole and continue cooking for 25 to 30 mins depending on colour desired

[cannyfradock]

h12rpo

I saw the bread when you started this thread.....looks mighty fine. Now you have posted the recipe and method I'd love to give it a go.

I've had 3 different attempts of working with sourdough....from 3 different sources. Each time the bread came out superb, but I could never keep the starter alive. Whatever method I tried....in the fridge, out of the fridge, refresh 1 day before, refresh 2 days before etc.....it always died on me?

Time for another attempt (will probably need 6 or 7 days of refreshing a new levain before I can use it? I have a large heavy cast iron casserole dish from Ikea (with lid).....do you think I could use that with your method?

Terry

[h12rpo]

When you say the sourdough 'dies' , it probably doesnt, it just needs refreshing. Mine has periods of not being active and looking 'dead', and even sometimes getting that dark coloured water on top. None of that means its dead, just stir the water back in and refresh/feed with equal weights of water and flour and hey presto. If it goes mouldy then yes its dead.

As regards the casserole dish, mine is a cast iron imitation le crusette from lidle and it works just great, I've also used a pyrex lidded casserole dish and that was fine too.
Using the lidded pot will get you the best rise ever, I promise !

No need for any of that putting water in a tray in the oven nonsense either

[cannyfradock]

Many thanks for the advice. Happy in one way.....quite sad in another. My 3 sourdoughs have come from....myself (from Dan Lepard method)....some from Rick Coleman..."Mairs Bakehouse....and some through the post from a kind member.

My baking is sporadic at best, so, after being left for a few days\week it was as you said....quite dormant with dark coloured water on top. I thought it was dead and threw it out......what a shame. Next time I'll try to refresh it at that stage.

Terry

[faz]

I was on a course last week Terry and the bloke who delivered the course refreshes his starter then keeps it in the fridge for 8 or so weeks, dipping in to it as required for his baking - using 2 or 3 dessert spoonfuls to inoculate his dough.

So it's tough old stuff and looks like you can ignore all that "refresh it every day or twice a day if possible" advice you see on the net if you look up sourdough cultures.

[h12rpo]

Yep, what faz says

There's a whole load of blx written about baking bread, and it scares people off. It makes me so angry and just seeks to elevate something which all our great grandmothers did without scales, or modern equipment / ovens or even thinking.
Heres another one i've seen in numerous books......'dont eat the bread until its thoroughly cooled as you wont be able to digest it' .......pah! What bunkum.....There's nothing finer than a slice off the loaf when its fresh out of the oven, and if you couldnt digest hot bread, toast would be causing all sorts of trouble

[faz]

And I should add, if it works for him it will wor for me! Although I used to refresh my starter every 10 - 14 days without any problems, I am going to change the way I look after it to make it even easier