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Post by spinal on Sept 27, 2013 9:22:33 GMT
While on the topic of bread, how do you transfer your bread to the oven? I find my dough is quite soft after it's rise, and transferring it to the oven ends up deforming the boules I've shaped...
M.
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adm
WFO Team Player
Posts: 164
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Post by adm on Sept 27, 2013 13:06:13 GMT
Do you use a banneton for proofing the loaves? If so, you can just put a peel over the top of the bannetton, flip the whole assembly upside down, lift off the bannetton and....voila!
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Post by cannyfradock on Sept 27, 2013 19:15:54 GMT
I once asked Rick Coleford of www.mairsbakehouse.co.uk/ the same question of baking high hydration loaves without using a bread tin or form. He said simply....you can't. When forming a hand made loaf for baking without a form it needs to be able to keep it's shape after the second proof...or you end up with something between a loaf and a flatbread. i.e.....get your water content/hydration right for free form baking. If you haven't visited his site yet....it's worth a visit. He and wife Maggie bake about 600 loaves of sourdough bread a week in his Alan Scott designed 7 foot by 5 foot internal diameter vault oven. He and Maggie can be found selling their bread at farmers markets in West Wales and around the Macynlleth area. Terry
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Post by spinal on Sept 27, 2013 20:02:42 GMT
Thanks - no banneton around here... just hands and peels So it's down to hydration... planning to do another batch tomorrow, nothing big, only 2kg or so of flour... but I would like to get it right! May be the first time I measure water for a dough
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Post by cannyfradock on Sept 27, 2013 21:09:43 GMT
Spinal I was taught on the yearly bakers get togethers I go to... www.flickr.com/photos/49880045@N04/4956211061/ ...to weigh everything and document it. I have always done this and can relate to past experiments to improve (allbeit very slowly) my baking skills. For tomorrow's course I have knocked out a few doughs but I will always have the exact ingredients at hand.... e.g.... Dough 1 1 kg Tesco finest 00 flour 14 gms yeast (active dried yeast) 14 gms salt 14 gms Olive oil 7 gms golden syrop 650 gms water Dough 3 600 gms Allisons strong white 300 gms Belbake wholemeal flour 100 gms Asda Rye flour ...as above except...685 gms water. etc. etc... I paid about £15 for my digital "Salter" scales but it's one of my better investments... Terry
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Post by spinal on Sept 28, 2013 7:05:57 GMT
I have some scales I use for making salamis and ham, so those should work (vitamin c dosages need to be quite accurate) so I'll try those... Will report back tomorrow after I've tasted the bread
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adm
WFO Team Player
Posts: 164
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Post by adm on Sept 28, 2013 9:48:42 GMT
To second Terry's comments, definitely bake by weight and use baker's percentages. That way you know exactly where you are, everything is repeatable and also scaleable up or down very easily. A good set of digital scales is your best friend. Bakery Bits do what appear to be an excellent set. I don't own them myself, but they are definitely on my Christmas present list: bakerybits.co.uk/bakery-equipment/scales-and-mixers/kd8000-bakery-scales-893.html
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Post by faz on Sept 28, 2013 11:46:33 GMT
I can second the weighing AND recording of ingredients, especially when you're trying to get a recipe sorted. If you don't, you'll make a fantastic loaf one week but have no idea how to re-create it. You should see the amount of scribbles in my notebook - makes sense to me but the wife thinks it is all gobbledygook LOL
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Post by faz on Sept 28, 2013 11:46:52 GMT
And those scales look pretty handy too!
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Post by spinal on Sept 28, 2013 15:20:54 GMT
THanks for all the comments I have two batches currently mixed and rising (first proof)... Here's a question, I normally just shape them when they look big enough, but what do others do? Knead and second proof? How long do you wait? Given that I've measured everything today, I'm quite keen to experiment M.
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Post by faz on Sept 28, 2013 20:18:35 GMT
We do the bulk ferment for anything from 1 to 4 hours, depending on temperature, giving the dough a stretch and fold every 30 to 60 minutes. The dough is ready to shape when it has risen well (but not doubled in size) and has taken on a glossy appearance.
We then shape and prove in a covered banneton for 1 to 2 hours (again depending on temperature) until it has risen some more, then turn out on to a preheated tray, slash and then bake. Water in a pan in the bottom of the oven adds a bit of steam to help the loaf bloom.
I am assuming you've baked your loaves from 4pm already! How did they turn out?
PS the timings above are for sourdough, normally yeasted bread wont take so long!
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adm
WFO Team Player
Posts: 164
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Post by adm on Sept 29, 2013 9:09:48 GMT
I normally use sourdough as well.....and I tend to do an overnight bulk ferment at around 13C, then divide, benchrest for 20 minutes, shape and proof in covered bannettons for 3-4 hours depending on temperature.
Then I bake in a dutch oven (actually a Lodge Combo Cooker, but pretty much any cast iron casserole will do). This creates a sealed environment with plenty of steam while the loaf is baking.
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Post by cannyfradock on Sept 29, 2013 10:03:48 GMT
THanks for all the comments I have two batches currently mixed and rising (first proof)... Here's a question, I normally just shape them when they look big enough, but what do others do? Knead and second proof? How long do you wait? Given that I've measured everything today, I'm quite keen to experiment M. My best results have come from an overnight fridge first proof. The next day I knock the dough back and form into loaves an place on my baking tray. I leave to prove for about an hour and score/slash the bread after about 20 minutes. I used to use a small container with boiling water in it at the bottom of the oven, but since one of the members said a spray bottle for misting the oven and spraying directly on the loaves was better.....I tried it and now always use that method. n.b....On my earlier post on this thread I mention 3 batches of dough. I tried to be clever and freeze the dough (in oiled plastic bags) directly after making.....disaster!!!.....2 days later when I went to take them out of the freezer I found that they had started to rise before they froze. I ended up with a freezer tray full of dough which had expanded so much that I couldn't get them out of the freezer without breaking the freezer compartment.....they were also real springy and difficult to roll out for pizza bases......won't try that method again!! Terry
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Post by spinal on Sept 29, 2013 17:16:05 GMT
LOL @ the freezer mishap, had dough explode when I first tried freezing sourdough a while ago... not that bad though...
Ended up making 2 batches of 1kg each. First batch made a baguette and 2 boules... of which one boule I gave away... and that rest is already gone! Second batch made a mega-boule, with which swmbo will be making sandwiches for work for the week... so all in, went pretty well!
I'll post pics tomorrow as I don't have the usb cable for my phone here, but considering I'm still baking without a door, I reckon that measuring the water is the crucial part! Also, 14g of yeast was quite different to what I was doing before... based on what 14f looks like, I think I was putting closer to 4g of yeast per kg... which explains why it was rising so slowly!
M.
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Post by spinal on Sept 30, 2013 13:11:06 GMT
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