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Post by cobblerdave on Feb 7, 2015 11:28:17 GMT
Gday
Im Dave I'm living in sub tropical QLD it's hot, it's humid, too hot too cook or build or use a WFO. I know it's cold in the nth, but it's pretty uncomfortable here too and I'm over the heat of summer and look foward to the cooler months.
Cooking with an oven in this climate is impossible. The kitchen becomes a hot box and as a result most of our cooking of meat and the such gets done on a little webber Q on the back verandah.
I've got interested in the " smoking" thing after missing the WFO.
The poor old webber Q has the "test bed" for a few experiements which have turned out pretty good to date ( an experiement that edible is good if it repeatable so much better)
I'm interested in "hot smoking" those temps at up to 125C those low and slow ones rather than the "cold smoke" curing ones.
I recon the mass oven like ours which are more than capable of holding this low temps for an extended period should do that but how to introduce the smoke without the tar I'm not sure about.
Regards dave
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Post by rivergirl on Feb 7, 2015 15:22:04 GMT
When I built my cobb I actually tried to put a hook in for smoking but I did not put it into the clay deep enough. This build I am going to try a bar going right through. I hot and cold smoke but in a little set up on my BBQ.
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Post by chas on Feb 7, 2015 16:13:11 GMT
I don't know if tar is too much of a problem, Dave... I have a Brooks smoker - just a heavy gauge tin box with a lid, really - with a perforated trivet that allows you to put a bit of oak or hickory sawdust in the bottom half, and cook trout or whatever (duck's the current favourite) in the top half. The heat source is external - you can sit it over a camping stove outside or a hob inside, and eventually the sawdust starts to char and smoke. So, you're cooking in a hot smokey mini oven. What I'm warbling about is that if you're really concerned about tar, maybe you heat your WFO but smoke in a tin box with selected, non-tarry, culinary-grade sawdust... fruitwood or something nice. You could experiment with a tin tray of sawdust: heat the WFO, slide a tray of sawdust in and see how long it takes to start to smoke. Though you aren't looking for cold-smoking, I'm thinking you could use a WFO for that too: I've smoked stuff, on and off, for 25 years through a variety of bodged constructions. Cold smoking, that is - bacon and smoked salmon. Smoked 20 sides of salmon for a friends wedding once... The easiest/cheapest to try was one I built on holiday for a mate: one of those garbage bins sold for burning stuff in the garden (a metal bin with a stubby chimney in the lid) like this:  connected to an old wardrobe via about 10 foot of flexi stainless flue liner. You must keep the smoke cool, so the idea was to light a smouldering fire of oak in the bin and by the time the smoke reached the wardrobe it would be cooled. Worked a treat, and we had proper bacon from whole sides of pig. So, I reckon take a flexi connection from your WFO chimney down to the bottom of an old wardrobe. I'd figure the pressure of the smoke rising will push cooled smoke down and out if the door's closed and there's no other way out... You would have to chose your time of year as the ambient air temp would affect the smoke temp - though running the flexi liner through a spay or water bath could work. Wish I was there to crack the problem. Chas |
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Post by cobblerdave on Feb 8, 2015 9:05:03 GMT
G'day My only attempt really at smoking in the WFO was a dismal failure. I cook fire in the oven oftern. Fire the old girl for an hour let her fire die down, corral the coals in the corner with a few fire bricks to protect the food from the heat. Roast away with the door off. WFO produce hardly any smoke unless wet or your using damp wood. Any smoke heads up and the smoke gets burnt to invisible at the high temps of the roof before it exits. Hardly any wood smoke smell in the food as its on the floor. Easy I thought throw some damp wood chips on the coals and close her up to contain them. How wrong was that. The fire was choked and instead of producing that thin blue smoke it produced a tarry mess. Open the oven up after an hour and black oven walls and a black shoulder of lamb. Not a pretty sight and the smell. Remove the lamb and finished on the Bbq. Not a complete rescue either that was a tarry piece of meat we literally had the cut the bark off the outside to get to an edible part. Ive started to do some research on hot smoking,cold smoking, offsets, uprights, gas, charcoal, wood pellets it's all pretty complicated but I'm determined to use that low slow heat you can get over many hours in a masonry oven and get a smoky effect as well. Experiments to date have used my webber Q and I've managed to get that thin blue smoke and a nice smoky flavour  This is last nights tea just some bangers. The supermarket pork were pretty good and had a good taste. The butchers beef and herbs were amazing. I'm really getting to like the smoke effect and determined to get the same results once the wheathers better and I can flash the big oven up. regards dave |
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Post by chas on Feb 8, 2015 10:00:46 GMT
Dunno if "wood pellets" over there is the same as wood pellets over here, Dave, but I use them in a boiler. I think they're made of pine which might not be first choice normally but... they are dry and formulated to burn very clean (no bark for a start) so they may do the job.
I've been thinking about this. You're going to have a problem in the WFO as it's going to be at cooking temperature - the danger is that by the time you've introduced smoke, the food is maybe overcooked if it's 'thin' sausage, chicken, trout etc.
So, I'd put your chosen sawdust or whatever in a roasting tin, push it in to get it smoking, pull it out and drop a trivet onto the smouldering stuff with the meat on, cover loosely in tinfoil or lid if it has one, and bung it back in. Voila! instant smokey 'oven' without the possibility of main oven tar and smoke from the start of cooking.
Chas
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Post by cobblerdave on Feb 8, 2015 11:11:41 GMT
G'day
That's a point, a very interesting point. To date I've been using wood chips. To get them going I've been depending on a heat source to get them smoking and keep them producing smoke. Stuck in the thought of throwing wood chips onto the charcoal of a kettle bbq I suppose.
I read somewhere about a wood sawdust snake thing. Light one end and it slowly smolders it's way along its length.
Have to investigate that one further
Regards dave
ps the pellet cooker is an American thing. It mechanically introduces small pellet of wood to the fire to keep a long slow and fully controlled burn. It all sounds a bit complicated to me. But the Americans are the masters of that sort of Bbq.
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Post by chas on Feb 8, 2015 17:57:07 GMT
I read somewhere about a wood sawdust snake thing. Light one end and it slowly smolders it's way along its length. Yeah, that's what they do in some commercial salmon an kipper smokers. Bacon too for all I know. For hot or cold smoking, sawdust's the thing. It can be a bugger to keep alight for the hours needed (few more disappointing things in life than coming down in the morning to find your sawdust went out some time ago) and for serious stuff like the wedding salmon, I put a little electric fan near to maintain a draught at the base of the brick stack I built. For your hot smoking/cooking though, the external heat source - in your case the WFO, conventionally a camping gas ring underneath - chars the 'dust by transmitted heat and you only need 15/20 minutes or so to complete the job. Chas |
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Post by kstronach on Feb 8, 2015 19:45:53 GMT
i'll be following this thread hoping for a good method for hot smoking. like you dave i'm a chuck the wood chips on the indirect charcoal on a weber and away you go but the problem being with the wfo that if you're using the falling heat theres going to be no heat source to produce the smoke from the chips.
i'm thinking your going to need some sort of heat in there (other than the retained heat) and possibly a vented/dampered door to control the airflow rather than our sort of door which completely seals the oven, could something like a chimney starter full of charcoal thrown in then chips on top in a smoker box or a tinfoil packet work? i too nearly ruined a chicken and roast potatoes by sealing up the embers with some chips on!
good luck with the experimenting!
keith
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Post by cobblerdave on Feb 9, 2015 1:28:50 GMT
 G'day I've found this but at $70 is a bit ouch! They have a charcoal smoker on the same site for $100. But it's a start I'll make the time to go and look at one in store to see how it's constructed can't be that hard. Kieth your idea for the charcoal starter for the webber certainly has merit. A full one of those is designed to hold enough charcoal to keep a webber going for hours. Only thing is perhaps I'm complicating things a little and should go back and find out cooking with the door off a bit more. I really should investigate how low a temp I can maintain with a fire or at least a bed of coals. I've managed to get the webber Q to keep to keep 125C which takes roasting a chicken from 1.5 hours to 4.5 hours which makes for one pretty soft and tasty bird. A dry brine, some rub, and a bit of smoke flavour it was the best. Regards Dave |
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Post by DuncanM on Feb 9, 2015 14:56:18 GMT
I hot-cooked (still low n slow) in my WFO incredibly well. The extra thick masonry of my oven holds temps for a loooooong time (it keeps 125C for well over 16 hours). My only problem is that I couldn't introduce any smoke, as with the door on, there was no oxygen for the wood to smoke away.
In the end I now hot-smoke on a Pro Q Excel 20, excellent bit of kit.
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Post by cobblerdave on Feb 11, 2015 11:01:09 GMT
G'day
Malcom. Thanks for the reminder about the time a insulated oven will maintain heat at those 125 C temperatures.
I'm thinking 12/16 hours is a lot more time than I need to do the low slow cook.
I'm doing the hot smoke, so smoke for first hour is the most effective as they say after that the smoke will not penetrate like a cold smoke at up to 80C.
I'm thinking an hour with the door off will not make much diference to the store of heat in the masonary. Wack it back on after the hour smoke and let it do the low slow cook.
What I'm not sure about how much " bounce back " I'll get with the lower oven temperature. At higher temperatures you can leave the oven door off till the surface temps drop, but once you place the door back on the temp bounced back up within a short time.
Frustrating at times if you bread is ready to go in.
Thanks all for the imput ( if you can think of more good or bad please ...) I think I can make this workable and hopefully not to complex that it's going to be an one off.
Regards dave
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Post by bigdavenorcott on Apr 11, 2015 19:47:19 GMT
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Post by bigdavenorcott on Apr 11, 2015 19:51:38 GMT
G'day I've found this but at $70 is a bit ouch! They have a charcoal smoker on the same site for $100. But it's a start I'll make the time to go and look at one in store to see how it's constructed can't be that hard. Kieth your idea for the charcoal starter for the webber certainly has merit. A full one of those is designed to hold enough charcoal to keep a webber going for hours. Only thing is perhaps I'm complicating things a little and should go back and find out cooking with the door off a bit more. I really should investigate how low a temp I can maintain with a fire or at least a bed of coals. I've managed to get the webber Q to keep to keep 125C which takes roasting a chicken from 1.5 hours to 4.5 hours which makes for one pretty soft and tasty bird. A dry brine, some rub, and a bit of smoke flavour it was the best. Regards Dave Ah that's the same thing. £30 over here - works brilliantly for cold smoking (did a cracking side of bacon over xmas) |
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Post by cobblerdave on Apr 12, 2015 10:15:02 GMT
G'day BigDave
Problem is with cold smoking is that it can only be done on a very few days in winter here so I'm reluctant to buy one if it doesn't work in the oven it will not have a use. So dave i'm waiting to see how your experiments go.
Thanks Mate!
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Post by bigdavenorcott on Apr 12, 2015 12:24:36 GMT
No worries! I'd thought about it over winter but since hadn't fired the WFO up hadn't tried it...this has inspired me to give it a go, maybe next weekend. Either pulled pork shoulder or a brisket US style (although I'm not sure what they're meant to turn out like, never tasted smoked beef I don't think)
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