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Post by Bandit on Mar 2, 2015 20:05:19 GMT
We do a lot of roasting in our WFO and one of the problems can be getting the temperature down.
WFO's work on induction heat from the oven base transmitted up through the base of the pan, I have made up some stainless racks that can be used to hold the roasting pan off the floor by about 25mm
WFO's also work on hot air in the oven , this can be regulated by the door to a certain extent.
WFO's also work on radiation from the hot floor and roof but also from the burning wood embers.
I was having problems with radiation from the embers and I have been using tin foil to stop the top catching so I have had built a heat shield a rectangular stainless plate 2 mm that stands vertical on two feet 48cm long by 22 cm high so just shorter than my oven door , I place this in front of the joint so it shields the joint from the radiated heat from the embers but cooks on the soaked heat of the base and top and on the air temperature.
I introduce or remove the heat shield and open or close the door as required seems to work ok and makes life easier. Chicken , duck, lamb, beef all fine.
It helps working for a Company that has a welding and fabrication dept, flues, oven stand, racks tools etc.
All I have to do now is to master how to get good crackling on pork, last time we cut off the crackling as it started to catch and brought it back to finish, disaster, burnt or uncrackled !
A suggestion!
This forum needs to be simplified to have very few individual forums, perhaps one for cooking, one for building, and a few speciality ones , designs, restaurants with WFO' etcI also belong to YBW a boating forum, the main ones are for yacht cruising, yacht maintenance and motor boats all fairly broad fields and it keeps it fast moving and more interesting, just a suggestion cos sometimes individual forums can be a bit slow.
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Post by cobblerdave on Mar 2, 2015 22:37:21 GMT
G'day
I use a row of firebrick as a heat shield and to contain ash and coals from my cooking space. What I also find usefull is I place the meat on a rack on top of a baking dish of water. It moderates the heat from below and collects the juices from the meat without them burning so you can use them for gravy later. The moisture tends to keep the meat from "bark ing" up and becoming to hard on the outside. It will still brown and get those lovely flavours. It doesn't have to be water either you could use beer or Apple juice with spices too.
The perfect cracking is not something that I cannt pull off every time. Nothing more disappointing than to get a perfect cracking the have it burn later or just as bad get soggy. Leave it till the end and have it not crackle cause it's hardened to much. Much better to remove it at some stage leaving the fat layer behind to protect the meat. Warm it up later and hit it with a heat gun or put it under the grill. Some people would call it cheating, I just call it crackling.
And when all else fails I too reach for the foil.
Regards dave
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Post by rivergirl on Mar 3, 2015 21:30:54 GMT
Same as Dave! I cut the skin off to crackle safely and surely! Let's face it pork is not pork without a good bit of cracking,
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Post by Bandit on Mar 4, 2015 19:45:39 GMT
The Mrs gets perfect crackling 9 times out of 10 in the AGA, the Pork from the WFO is good and tasty.
Last weeks Lamb from the WFO was described by No 1 son (28) as the best leg of lamb he has ever had so I must be doing something right.
The Mrs says her complaint is that the meat juices burn so cant be used for gravy so how much water do you use Dave? Is it a matter of just using enough so it does not dry out. I am a little concerned about having too much steam in the oven and steaming the meat?
I thought of bricks as a heat shield but they take up a lot of room when you are trying to juggle pans about.
With the exception of crackling and gravy the WFO is excellent for flavour and quality of meat. Rib of beef we are cooking to 45 deg C on a meat thermometer and leaving it to rest, that works well even my yorkie puds in the WFO worked better than the fan oven, Roast potatoes work well.
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Post by cobblerdave on Mar 6, 2015 10:32:32 GMT
G'day
sorry for the late reply, life gets in the road sometimes.
The dish that I use is about 5 to 6 cm deep and I half fill it with water. It stops the meat from drying rather than steaming it. You still get those lovely flavours and it will brown as well. The water bath underneath as a moderator to the heat. Remember your food is closer to the oven hearth than to the radiant heat from the walls. The added advantage is that in that moist inviroment the wood smoke flavours are obsorbed better into the meat from what I've found out over the summer.
The water level will fall so remember to check on it from time to time. If you have to fill it boil the jug and fill with hot water, less chance of slowing things down that way.
If you arrive at the cooked stage with to much water it's simply a case of boiling of the excess on the stove in a pot whilst the meat gets to rest. Then you'll get the maximum flavour to your gravy.
I tend to cook off the heat left over from the previous nights pizza cook.
If not I burn sticks. Sticks are about wrist size, if not split them down. You'll get a hot fire. For about an hour. Then the door loosely on the front, till those coals burn down. After that hour then coral them in a corner with your bricks or heat shield.
I'm cautious of taking them out. Hot ash and coals in a bucket takes days to cool safely. Add water, steam burns , the handle falls on the hot sides of the bucketp, safer to leave them in.
Youll then have an oven at baking temps for a number of hours.
No flame, no big reflected heat. Your cooking to the heat stored in the Mass of the oven walls.
Regards dave
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Post by cobblerdave on Mar 8, 2015 12:37:54 GMT
G'day bandit
I followed the link to your oven manufacturer from a reply you'd given in the introduction section.
I was shocked to find they claimed a 4 hour heat retention!
Now that's not right. Those caste ovens vary in thickness from 35mm to 50 mm of castable. A brick oven is 100 mm of brick, a bit less dense than castable in most cases. With insulation over the dome and under the hearth I'm sure you can get and keep a good level of heat in the mass of your oven.
It might be a half hour to get to pizza heat but a good fire after that say 90 mins will ensure the full thickness of the dome is saturated with heat. Block off the chimney if it's internal with something as simple as a ceramic tile, that will prevent a lot of loss.
Fit an insulated door, mines simple, 50 mm thermalite block silasticed to a wood face. Carved with a rasp and wood chisel to fit tightly in the mouth.
I'm sure you'll be able to take those times without having to maintain an active fire. Fit a thermometer to the door and I'm sure you'll find that the cooking times will be way extended.
Think about temperatures too. It's not a normal oven and 150C to 130C and 4 to 6 hours is perfect to turn a shoulder of pork into a perfect pulled pork. It will be so soft you'll be able to pull the bone out by hand. (Sorry still no crackling)
Regards dave
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Post by Bandit on Mar 17, 2015 18:15:08 GMT
Since I have used the heatshield:
Two weeks ago Leg of lamb and roast potatoes with heat shield worked well.
Chicken last week and roast potatoes I put 15mm of water in the pan, the chicken was moist and was excellent as were the spuds and there was juice and a bit of water for the gravy.
Yesterday I did Duck with heat shield and 15mm water , apart from the fact that I let one side of duck get a bit singed, they did not roast as well as previously and came out as tough as old boots.
When I finished with the oven yesterday base was 250 deg C with digital laser thermometer, a few embers but no new fuel, 24 hours later 151 deg c, it has 35mm of ceramic tile insulation below and two layers of ceramic insulation fleece over, tin foil, chicken wire and then a lime mortar over.
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Post by Bandit on Apr 6, 2015 12:40:55 GMT
 For the last few weeks I have been playing with using water in the pan for a roast, Verdict: Chicken, keeps it moist, a bit tougher good juice for gravy. Leg of lamb, leaves the fat un rendered, fat left in the meat. Duck, did not render it in the same way, tough. Yesterday, family over for Easter Sunday lunch cooked two legs of lamb, actually hogget ie over a year old. spike holes in lamb insert garlic and salt over outside. Fire guard in place, no water in the pan, started off at 320 deg c on base settled down to about 280, turn the meat over every 10 minutes, I slightly over cooked it at 1hr 50 mins. Meat excellent, moist, full of flavour and not fatty, ie it had partially rendered out. |
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Post by cobblerdave on Apr 6, 2015 22:16:13 GMT
G'day
Wow those temps are far over what I would consider to to be meat baking temps. In saying that there is no right or wrong really.
Perhaps a strait rake over the bare hearth floor then the juices that drip would be vaporized and the smoke further flavour the meat.
Regards dave
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Post by Bandit on Apr 7, 2015 18:51:45 GMT
Those temperatures are the oven base with a laser temp gun just off centre away from the fire which is to the side by then
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Post by bigdavenorcott on Apr 11, 2015 18:43:41 GMT
I'm going to do a big beef shin in the residual heat from yesterday's burn; hoping if I do it in a big pot with tight fitting lid it'll cook happily for 20 hours or so at 120 C ish... might need to put a tiny fire in there tomorrow to nudge temp back up.
Planning on putting the meat (inside pot) on a celery/ carrot trivet, with a bayleaf and bottle of ale in, and the pot itself on a wire rack to lift off the hearth.
Will report back with pics if it works out!
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Post by Bandit on Apr 12, 2015 17:30:49 GMT
I'm going to do a big beef shin in the residual heat from yesterday's burn; hoping if I do it in a big pot with tight fitting lid it'll cook happily for 20 hours or so at 120 C ish... might need to put a tiny fire in there tomorrow to nudge temp back up. Planning on putting the meat (inside pot) on a celery/ carrot trivet, with a bayleaf and bottle of ale in, and the pot itself on a wire rack to lift off the hearth. Will report back with pics if it works out! Sounds very interesting, will you start it off with the lid off to get a bit of smoke in to it ? |
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Post by bigdavenorcott on Apr 12, 2015 18:29:24 GMT
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Post by Bandit on Apr 13, 2015 19:28:17 GMT
 Yesterday for Sunday Lunch ( in the evening) I did two hands of pork. No water in the pan, grill over the roasting pan, shield in place oven base 241deg c to 219 deg c ( with an infrared laser sensor). Cooked the crackling 1h 20 min and removed the crackle, perfect really pleased with it, put the meat back in the oven for another 30 minutes, unfortunately I undercooked the meat a bit, Oh well get it right next time but very pleased with the crackling. |
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