Pizza Oven Help

[david]

Hello all,

I feel sheepish coming on here as I am having trouble with my oven and therefore my pizza : {

I am cooking my pizza in my 90cm oven at around 440 degrees but immediately the oven goes on, the base underneath is going black quite quickly

I make Neapolitan style dough and use Caputo flour to the standard recipe and I hardly put any flour down when working the dough and I am keeping in the right temperature zone. 

Why could it be going black and leaving these stains?! When I went to Naples, they were more liberal with flour and never got this. Any suggestions would be welcomed, could it be the size of the oven to the size of the wood?



Many thanks, David

[david]

and I clean it too!

[kstronach]

hi david,

I've had this problem before too and sometimes still do, sometimes it's worse than others. It will be interesting to hear what others have to say, or if they have had this problem? All i can put it down to is the dough formulation but i'm not sure how to fix it. Although 440 degrees floor temperature sounds a little bit on the hot side to me, i shoot for 380 to 400 degrees.

keith

[albacore]

Not sure what the real issue is here. Are you saying that the pizzas are ending up with burnt bases?

[david]

The dough isn't burning but where specks of flour has had contact, it has blackened.

The temperature of the ovens in Napes are around 460 d C but maybe that's for a larger oven.  

[oblertone]

I thought this effect was fairly normal; I use semolina as a base 'lubricant' and it blackens immediately but burns off pretty rapidly too. Doesn't seem to have any effect on the taste of my pizza either.

[chas]

I'd go with the 'normal' too. Compared to fine ash, what's a bit of burned semolina between friends? Not sure whether you're concerned about your pizzas or your floor or both.

Things to remember about ovens and pizza: At a searing floor temperature of 440 the base will cook so quickly it'll burn while the rest is raw if the dough is thick. You probably won't cook anything much on top - you'll just about melt mozza because you need to take it out so fast. Hence thin crust pizza with tomato/mozza alone and "add toppings after".
As an extreme to illustrate the point a loaf needs long baking at the more gentle 200ish to cook through without burning - and of course that is what you'd use in a conventional domestic oven for pizza and bread.

Stains/specks etc are badges of honour in a wfo and on its product - a bit like the burn scars on chefs' arms.

Relax, David. We're all normal here...

Chas

[david]

I believe anything below 400' is too low for Neapolitan (though the oven is a lot smaller!) and I do not agree that the dough would not cook all the way through (it depends on your dough). I am going to:

1: Try a pizza just below 400', see how that goes.

2: try and raise the temperature next time too the 900F and will get back to you

This is from the Vera Pizza Napoletana Website :  The real Neapolitan pizza must be cooked in a wood-fired dome oven operating at a temperature of about 900 F. Coal, electric, or wood/gas combination ovens, while capable of producing a delicious pizza, do not conform to the Neapolitan tradition and are not allowed.

David

[kstronach]

david, i think the 900 degrees or 480 degrees celcius relates to the dome temperature rather than the floor temperature. The dome wants to be around 100 to 150 degrees hotter than the floor to allow both the top and bottom to cook at equal times, and even then sometime you need to dome the pizza for the last 5 or 10 seconds to finish the top off.

try your floor temp at about 380 or 400 with a flame on the side rolling into the dome and report back if it's any better

keith

[david]

Many thanks Keith, I like the idea, I will give that a go!

David

[chas]

Sept 25, 2015 8:50:36 GMT david said:

I believe anything below 400' is too low for Neapolitan (though the oven is a lot smaller!) and I do not agree that the dough would not cook all the way through (it depends on your dough)...

David, with respect it doesn't depend on the dough - critically, it depends on the thickness of the dough and the style of bread you're baking. It's all bread-baking in an oven. A thick base, "Neapolitan dough" or not will be burned beneath and raw inside if too thick for the heat to strike through and cook in the working time available.

You say you make "Neapolitan style dough". If you're making "Neapolitan style pizza" too then according to spec it's dough that to the centre the thickness is not more than 0.3 cm (.11 inch), and a border that is not greater than 1-2 cm (.4-.8 inch), forming a frame, or crust.

A dough base that thin with a rim that skinny cooks in a minute and a half, maybe two at the most on a really hot floor, say 400c. Of course, 'overhead' heat plays a part too, but that's largely to be credited with raising the temperature of the wet, cold tomato and cheese to an edible level.

But "Neapolitan style dough" wont cook through at that temperature if it's much thicker - it'll just burn underneath while you wait for edibility.

Chas

[david]

Hi Chas,

I'm going to have a play with the oven and lower it slightly and see if that improves thing (I'm hoping the leopard spotting stays). I agree about the thickness, although Neapolitan isn't that thick anyway.

The trick with the Neapolitan is to open out the dough with your hands so the crust still has a lot of air in it, so when you see a Neapolitan (like the one below by Ciro Salvo), the thick rim is not doughy, more an air pocket.





Photo from www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1496894537287320&set=a.1390018034641638.1073741828.100009003649674&type=3&theater

[david]

Although you are right Chas, thick dough (like Sicilian pizza) is better at lower temps, like in a deck oven.

You got me thinking about sicilian pizza now! : )

[cobblerdave]

G'day
Just checking you dough doesn't contain sugar even sugar in a yeast starter is a no no.
Same goes for oils and fats and milk.
Just flour water yeast and salt is all you need.
I use rice flour as a slip agent as it doesn't burn and taste bitter.
As for temp, if it's hitting the floor and burnin it just too hot regardless of what temp its reading.
Pizza has a bluish flame and yes I've had one burn. I usually make a garlic pizza for the tests. If it burns you laugh and call it a test. If it doesn't you cut it up and it keeps them busy so you can get more into the oven
Regards dave

[chas]

Sept 27, 2015 3:36:51 GMT cobblerdave said:

G'day
... I use rice flour as a slip agent as it doesn't burn and taste bitter.

Good tip! Must try that.

Chas