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Post by surplus6 on Feb 26, 2016 9:21:20 GMT
Hi, just a quick intro. I've been reading/researching wood fired ovens for a while now, it started when I was reading up on J tube rocket heaters etc. some one had posted pictures of a barrel oven with batch box fire underneath. that was it, a way to heat up the oven without the fire in the oven. That was as far as it got until now, my 17 year old daughter has progressed from cakes and the like to starting to get into baking breads. So now I'm kind of getting nagged to build a bread oven in the garden for her.
I'm not after a huge build, just big enough for a loaf or two at a time (and the odd pizza etc lol) now a couple of questions
1. would a batch box fire overly complicate the build (example below, hopefully) 2. is ash etc. a big problem when cooking with the fire inside the oven 3. dome V's half barrel, any preferences
 heat from fire would heat floor of oven and exit up the rear slot into oven and exit out of chimney as usual. |
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Post by chas on Feb 26, 2016 13:53:53 GMT
Hi, just a quick intro. I've been reading/researching wood fired ovens for a while now, it started when I was reading up on J tube rocket heaters etc. some one had posted pictures of a barrel oven with batch box fire underneath. that was it, a way to heat up the oven without the fire in the oven. That was as far as it got until now, my 17 year old daughter has progressed from cakes and the like to starting to get into baking breads. So now I'm kind of getting nagged to build a bread oven in the garden for her.
I'm not after a huge build, just big enough for a loaf or two at a time (and the odd pizza etc lol) now a couple of questions
1. would a batch box fire overly complicate the build (example below, hopefully) 2. is ash etc. a big problem when cooking with the fire inside the oven 3. dome V's half barrel, any preferences heat from fire would heat floor of oven and exit up the rear slot into oven and exit out of chimney as usual.
hi, and welcome... Not familiar with the J tube, so I'm guessing that smoke and flue gasses also rise into the oven and out the chimney - nothing necessarily wrong there, after all, we light the fire in with the food - but you'll need to be as aware as we are of food-safe firewood usage: no old pallets or recycled, treated or engineered product you might otherwise burn. It's also received wisdom that flame from the fire (pushed to the sides) 'rolls' heat over the top of cooking pizza to cook toppings. That said it may just work: get enough heat into the floor and over the top on its way to the chimney, and how could pizza not cook? Bread baking needs longer - how easy is it to keep a rocket stove going? To answer your questions 1) not if you're itching to try this combination, go for it! But the lack of flooring insulation will make it difficult to convert any oven shell to conventional use if it doesn't work, and the floor construction itself will need careful thought - resistant to the fire below, food-safe above. 2) no, we just rake/sweep ash to the sides and back - and in my case, not necessarily every firing 3) both have their advocates, both are an interesting build, barrel possibly gives more usable floor area in a confined space, dome brings a symmetry that may use your heatsource better. Keep us posted, with pics! Chas |
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Post by surplus6 on Feb 26, 2016 20:06:37 GMT
 found this pic of loaded batch box. think it will be a fire inside oven for ease of build. |
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Post by oblertone on Feb 28, 2016 10:24:56 GMT
I've no experience with the type of fire-down-below oven you mention but would urge caution over the oven temperature; bread needs to cook below 220c otherwise you'll kill the yeast and prevent 'oven Spring' therefore most WFO bakers rely on retained heat rather than a live fire as the latter will be considerably hotter. The retained heat is stored in the oven mass during firing, the fire is then removed and the oven allowed to cool to a usable level before putting the bread in. This is why most WFO's are built of brick/clay/refractory and heavily insulated. Hope this helps.
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Post by surplus6 on Feb 28, 2016 19:18:54 GMT
good points, I have decided on a fire inside and still not sure on dome or half barrel, although dome is edging forwards a bit
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Post by surplus6 on Feb 29, 2016 1:43:11 GMT
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simon
valid member
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Post by simon on Feb 29, 2016 20:36:21 GMT
I've seen his videos, and they do look interesting. However he's essentially using an insulating material for his construction. This makes his ovens an interesting alternative for pizza making, and other live fire cooking methods. However the mass of the oven will not retain heat, so the oven is no good for retained heat cooking/baking. This would rule it out for you as a prospective baker (or your daughter). From what I've read, barrel vault ovens are better for baking bread, based solely on the floor layout, and your loaf arrangement. That's probably good advice if you're almost a production baker. Fact is for the odd loaf or two (or more even), either style of oven will bake nicely. The mass of the oven is what's important when using retained heat, not the shape. |
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Post by surplus6 on Mar 1, 2016 11:06:01 GMT
I've seen his videos, and they do look interesting. However he's essentially using an insulating material for his construction. This makes his ovens an interesting alternative for pizza making, and other live fire cooking methods. However the mass of the oven will not retain heat, so the oven is no good for retained heat cooking/baking. This would rule it out for you as a prospective baker (or your daughter). From what I've read, barrel vault ovens are better for baking bread, based solely on the floor layout, and your loaf arrangement. That's probably good advice if you're almost a production baker. Fact is for the odd loaf or two (or more even), either style of oven will bake nicely. The mass of the oven is what's important when using retained heat, not the shape. so would one of his ovens work if you added clay or cob around the outside at 1 or 2 inch thick? or even use thicker walls in the first place?
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simon
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Post by simon on Mar 1, 2016 11:54:26 GMT
so would one of his ovens work if you added clay or cob around the outside at 1 or 2 inch thick? or even use thicker walls in the first place?
Not for baking. The problem is he's building with an insulator. This would allow you to cook pizza pretty soon after lighting the fire, as the interior would be hot pretty much straight away, although you'd want some kind of bricks or stone on the base to cook the base of a pizza. His oven would also be good on it's wood consumption, as you're not putting lots of energy it the fabric of the oven. For baking you don't have a live fire. If you used cob on the outside as a heat store... 1) It will take an age to heat up, as the oven core is an insulator. You'll likely lose the heat as fast as you gain it. 2) The baking process requires the heat to pass from your oven to the food you're cooking/baking, this will not work well, as you have an insulator lined oven! The only way I could see an oven like that working is if it was huge, and you half filled it with bricks which would store your thermal energy, but that's a bit silly! :-) In short, for baking, you need thermal mass, and ideally good insulation. How much mass depends on your baking requirements. Some ovens (pro bakers) deliberately add weight to their ovens, fire them once, and can then bake 2 (or maybe more) full loads before needing to fire again. Apart from perhaps the smallest of ovens with poor insulation, any oven on this forum will bake. |
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Post by surplus6 on Mar 1, 2016 20:58:07 GMT
thanks for that, just looked an easy way to get the dome. more research needed I think
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Post by surplus6 on Mar 14, 2016 10:29:27 GMT
would driveway paving bricks be any good for the oven floor?  |
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Post by davenott on Mar 14, 2016 11:07:23 GMT
would driveway paving bricks be any good for the oven floor? No they crumble after a couple of firings. Best use firebricks, either new or 2nd hand, if you read 'recent posts' there is some discussed on bricks for oven floor. Dave. |
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Post by downunderdave on Mar 14, 2016 19:19:16 GMT
would driveway paving bricks be any good for the oven floor? No they crumble after a couple of firings. Best use firebricks, either new or 2nd hand, if you read 'recent posts' there is some discussed on bricks for oven floor. Dave. If they are made of cement then they're unsuitable, however if you used fired clay pavers you'd have a better chance of success. The problem is that they've been designed for driveways not for applications with fire. A very pale (low iron) fired clay paver would have the better chance of success. Better to use fire brick. |
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Post by surplus6 on Mar 15, 2016 0:56:19 GMT
just asked as I may be having my drive redone at some point soon, and have them down at the minute
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Post by sparkles on Mar 17, 2016 11:56:47 GMT
Surplus6 The dome isn't difficult. I'm not a builder but managed to build a dome without any disasters. My mate who helped me didn't believe it would work and that the following morning there would be a pile of rubble. Have a look for indispensable tool or Pompeii oven on YouTube lots of videos to show you how.
I fired mine up a few days ago (18 degrees and sunny) we made pizza then barbecued some sausage. Put the oven door on (didn't clear the ash) and the following day it was still at 230 degrees so baked some bread. No ash on the bread.
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