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Post by turkey on Jun 12, 2012 13:09:03 GMT
I must admit the dome should be easier as its higher up than the hearth, but in truth I was stood on the stand, bucket of vermicrete on the dome roof and then bent double to apply it. I dont know if you have ever played in goal in 5 a side but as you are basically squatting the whole time its not your back that is sore afterwards, and the same here lol. From rump to knee on the underside of my leg is reminding me of the work if you see the MR Fox pic you can see I had managed to get a band round the low part earler, this managed to get over the vertical section of the dome and so with that set the last part was pretty easy to do tbh. Now there is a complete layer on I think the top up layer will be even easier as it can really bite. I found the vermicrete sticks to the CF blanket quite well, but the chicken wire was not 100% tight, so what would happen is once you got one area done well, pushing the stuff into the bit next to it would flex the wire back out on the old section nearly making it fall down. That is why I stopped first time round where I did as I had already had one large landslide and thought it best to quit whilst ahead (and dry) knowing once it set, it would be a firm base and would be holding the chicken wire taught and I would be working with gravity not against it. That flue is 1meter long btw to give an idea of the total size, I think its probably a tad high, but its not so bad when you step back and look at the oven and stand as a whole. Ignore the mess / clutter, but here is a pic a little further back to get it all in.
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Tom B
WFO Team Player
Posts: 148
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Post by Tom B on Jun 12, 2012 15:36:06 GMT
A job to be proud of; get yourself a pint
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Post by cannyfradock on Jun 12, 2012 18:07:58 GMT
Turkey
I like the way you tackled the vermecrete. I put 2 coats on, on the weekend ... I had to wet it up a bit, and added the rest of the lime to help it bind......it's still a sod to use!!!
Great to see it all coming together.
Terry
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Post by turkey on Jun 14, 2012 8:33:38 GMT
used up the rest of my vermiculite yesterday. I managed a semi decent extra layer to the two sides touchable and a load on top. Due to space constraints the rear / sides by the fences got less but should be fine, heat rises so made sure the top got the most.
in total that makes 2 bags used, I think I could have stretched to 3 bags at most if I had more space to work but I until I fire it up I don't know if what I have is enough or if forcing more on would have been better etc.
just the render to go and it will be curing time,
I won a cowl from ebay for £6 plus postage, looks a bit old but the shiny ones are so expensive, this isn't for dual walls so not sure if it will keep the flue insulation dry, I suspect a upgrade to a proper cowl will have to be on the cards at some stage, but thus should last the "summer" lol.
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Post by turkey on Jun 14, 2012 16:03:28 GMT
thinking about the render now, the thought of all this waterproofing is a pain, I like the easy life and already have some wickes brick waterproofing silicon wash stuff, cant seem to find it online to link to, but its basically a solvent wash with silicone and other stuff in it to form a breathable waterproof layer on brickwork. I assume this will work just as well over render, I am not sure how good it is at driving rain but we shall have to see. With this plan in mind I dont think its possible I can paint the dome, so I have ordered some "nut" couloured cement dye and plan to try to dye the render to a nice dark brown and then waterproof it as it is. hopeing to try and get the bakehus look, well without the grand scale, rustic stonework or pro finnish.... infact perhaps just the colour lol
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Post by bookemdanno on Jun 15, 2012 10:15:31 GMT
Changed my design....i'm making that!!!!! Nice!
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Post by turkey on Jul 27, 2012 17:38:17 GMT
just wanted to bounce my render plan past folks that might know, or at least will know more than me.
my plan is to go for 2 layers, first will be a mix of 4.1.1 with sharp sand, cement and lime. This will ne made with a water solution containing wickes "waterproofer", I will scratch this when drying.
then when dry I will do another layer the same as the top coat but I will add cement dye to this layer to get the dome colour I am after?
I also thought about finally painting it with a vertical wall waterproofing liquid I have to help water roll off, its breathable apparently but will wait till the dome is dry.
also I have tiles round the oven but only on the two visible sides, for the non visible are I was hoping to make the render raised to make a nice slope to the edge of the hearth to encourage water to wash away.
thought? :-)
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Post by faz on Jul 27, 2012 20:51:45 GMT
The mix seems a bit strong for render, and I think if it is too strong it is more likely to crack. The second layer also needs to be weaker than the first, though I don't 100% understand why.
I used a dye in my render but found it really difficult to get an even colour, as it got wet before it had fully cured and it washed some of the colour out. I am going to paint over it.
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Post by jerrym on Jul 27, 2012 22:09:48 GMT
Turkey,
well pleased your build is doing well.
have not got to render an oven yet. will be interested in what members have successfully used.
what i do know is that if water sits on render it will soak in (good drain off essential, no such thing as waterproof render).
wetting the brick before applying will give better bonding. some expanded metal over the brick is probably crucial to give a more stable surface for the render (given the heat expansion)
don't add more water than needed to get a workable mix to minimise shrinkage on drying
don't scratch too deep on 1st coat or make 2nd too thin otherwise scratch will show through.
1st thought on 2nd coat would be 5:1:1. i'd even be tempted on 8:2:1 (sand:lime:cement) to minimise hairline cracking.
the general mix ratio rule to keep in mind being 1:3 binder (cement, lime, plasticizer) to sand.
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Post by cannyfradock on Jul 29, 2012 10:41:00 GMT
Turkey
I also think that the ratio of 4:1:1 sand, lime and cement may be a bit strong. When cement and lime are used together in a "render mix" the lime is calculated as the same ratio as cement. If your ratio was 6:1:1: that would give a general ratio of 3:1.....much less likely to crack, but still have the strength of a sand, cement 4:1 ratio render.
When using dye's you have to be very exacting. Liquid dye is difficult to get right as it must be mixed by volume with the water.....then the exact amount of water needs to be added equal to the cement ratio....if your sand is already wet etc it is difficult to achieve the exact ratio's. I find the powdered dye more exacting as you add it to the dry cement in exact ratio, so then it doesn't matter how much water you use.....or how wet the sand is.....as long as you measure all your mixes in volume (use buckets)
Terry
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Post by turkey on Jul 29, 2012 17:52:18 GMT
didn't see the messages so the render went on in that ratio (which I think I read on FB), was pretty much using my hands as if it was vermiculite to spread it on, and tried to float it after but it was too dry by then in some areas, but overall it seems ok I think. Have had it covered, will go and spray it down to damp it to help it slowly dry/cure to resist cracking. Will have to see how it goes, if it needs patching then so be it, but will be a bit of a pain :/
will reduce the strength of the mix for the top coat. What is the general opinion on the top coat mix? my dye is powder so hopefully get a clean even colour. One issue is my lime has clumps in it, so for the top coat will need to try and sieve it as I mix :/
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Post by pete123 on Aug 2, 2012 19:54:04 GMT
Hi Turkey,
I hope to do some render myself at the weekend.
Do you have any photo's of progress?
Pete
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Post by turkey on Aug 2, 2012 19:57:32 GMT
hi Pete,
I can probably photograph it tomorrow morning but will have to email you if that is ok as not sure I can get the photo uploaded easily, where I can snap and email from the phone directly,
its hardly a pro job but you are more than welcome to see my work.
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Post by pete123 on Aug 2, 2012 20:40:35 GMT
Thanks, Don't go to any trouble. I haven't taken any of mine lately although there hasn;t been much progress lately.
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Post by turkey on Aug 3, 2012 11:03:24 GMT
i decided to pull my finger out and actually get the pics here, it was not much extra work, but I did have to use the phone to take the pictures so appologies for any quality issues. I tried to get good coverage of the oven, you can see the back where I have not bothered to tile, I have tried to smooth from the oven to the edge of the brick hearth to make a smooth run off for any water. Its a right pig to get to there and I have no idea if I will even be able to get a float there, that part was all done by hand, the main oven was all done by hand, ie grab the render and smear it on with a gloved palm and press it in. Only right at the end did I take a float to it to try and make it pretty, I think some parts where too dry to make a difference so in hindsight I should have had a water spray and done a bit more tidy as I go. You use alot more than you initialy think, or I did so I would recomend making quite a large batch each time as it goes on pretty quick, I found it grabbed well and had no real issues bar access to the rear. I think the hardest part will be trying to make sure there are no indentations for water to sit, especially between the dome and the flue. I have not put a photo, but the other end of the flue had the insulation between the walls (twin walled) exposed as the cowel is for a single skin, I covered this with render in a bit to make sure this did not spend its time capturing water, hopefully it was dry inside and I will not bust this with steam on the first firing but its no big deal if I do.
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