|
Post by cannyfradock on Aug 20, 2012 18:18:05 GMT
Mark Thomas of "O Sole Mio" ...."Wood-burning fuel for wood-fired ovens" would like his product on our forum....I love correct protocol. Here's his product....... Wood fuel briquette for pizza ovens – ‘O Sole Mio Used by over 8,000 pizza chefs in Italy, and the fuel of choice for the World Pizza Championships in Naples, ‘O Sole Mio is a patented wood briquette designed specifically for pizza ovens. Made from 100% Beech, and food grade certified. Video on how it is made and how to use at www.youtube.com/watch?v=JkrYkO_PVtM Available to buy on line at www.woofwoodfuel.co.uk/pizza-oven-fuel.phpTerry
|
|
|
Post by spinal on Aug 20, 2012 19:30:16 GMT
Interesting! Is Mark on the forum? (i.e. if we ask questions here, will he respond or do we need to contact him directly?)
I'll ask anyhow as a trial... - What firelighters are used in the video? - How to the logs react to moisture? If kept under my oven, they will get damp (outdoors). My idea was to leave some wood after each burning in the oven to dry it for the next batch. Do the logs have water-repelling surfaces? - Are the logs "smokeless" by UK standards? (i.e. can they be used in smoke-control zones?) - looking at the site, I'm trying to figure out... is £15(ish) for a box? How long does a box burn for at the rate of 2 logs to start + half every 15 minutes? (trying to compare it to the price of wood, at £35 per tonne bulk - which is the best price I could find near me) M.
|
|
|
Post by cannyfradock on Aug 20, 2012 20:01:35 GMT
Spinal
Mark had a similar post and was a member on our old forum. I'm sure if(when)he sees your post, he will register and answer your questions.....
Terry
|
|
|
Post by turkey on Aug 21, 2012 9:50:45 GMT
I would be interested in the comparisons with regular logs, from an actual user. I suspect these might be less cost effective to light our ovens as the oven will be cold (outside in the UK), but these logs would be great for keeping the oven warm and cooking with, in part due to consistency and density so you would need less for the same heat freeing up valuable cooking space, taking a lot of stress out of the cooking phase due to the simplicity. From a longer video on the UK suppliers site the use of these also helps with carbon tax and other health and safety requirements in Italy so offer additional value to the catering trade. I would ask why the logs in the video look nothing like the ones photographed on the main page, the photographed logs apart from not having the smooth brown exterior to look like a log also seem less dense, the logs in the video seem really compact at the ends. I think this is a stock image from the manufacturer but its an interesting difference. They do not say but I believe a box has 8 logs in it. Spinal re defra I think its the oven that gets certified with a fuel not a fuel on its own, so you cant get certified fuel and burn it anywhere :/ I know the logs have no water repelling properties other than being very compact, there is no glue or additives in them apparently so its just wood dust very heavily compacted under heat. The firelighters appear to be "Flamers Natural Firelighters" www.woofwoodfuel.co.uk/kindling-firelighting.php
|
|
|
Post by DuncanM on Aug 21, 2012 12:20:25 GMT
I use flamers, and must say they are fantastic.
|
|
|
Post by spinal on Aug 21, 2012 13:33:01 GMT
turkey - thanks for the responses; makes sense. I may grab a box once the oven it done and give it a try. Like you, I was thinking of using them as space-saving "keep the heat going" instead of a pile of wood-based embers... especially if they burn slower/longer than wood. Regarding "smokelessness"; here is the list from Defra: smokecontrol.defra.gov.uk/fuels.php?country=aI did a quick search, but couldn't find them. If Mark is reading this - that would be a great selling point; if you get them certified all those under smoke bans would be enticed to use them. There are a few fire-logs on the list, but I have no idea what the process/protocol to get onto the list is... m.
|
|
nef
member
Specialist WFO fuel supplier
Posts: 12
|
Post by nef on Aug 21, 2012 16:14:21 GMT
I am pleased that the introduction of the product on the forum has provoked some questions.
I am happy to answer any questions you have, but here are some answers to questions already posted.
Firelighters The firelighters shown are Sitta Mr Focus firelighters. They are only available in the UK to commercial customers in boxes of 11, so would last a home user absolutely ages. Look for "Flamers" on the Woof Wood fuel site which are very similar.
The firelighters have a lot less calorific power than a mineral product such as Zip originals, but are 100% renewable being made of natural wax and wood.
Moisture As with any briquette, they are very low in moisture and are hygroscopic (absorb moisture). They must not be stored outdoors. There is absolutely no need to leave these in the oven after use to "dry out", they are typically <8% moisture content. If you leave them in the oven they are more likely to just self ignite.
Smokeless fuel There are no wood smokeless fuels certified by DEFRA, nor will there be. Only mineral fuels will pass the testing procedure. The test cost is high, but if we could pass it with 'O Sole Mio, we would pay for DEFRA approval. Note that most of the fuels were certified by CPL many years ago and are derivatives of coal.
The current legislation is governed by the Clean Air Act which is currently in the process of being rewritten. The consultation in March 2012 concluded that the Act was “completely outdated, a complete overhaul is required”.
Part of the issue here is that Government policy is to encourage the use of renewable heat, the Renewable Heat Incentive being a key driver, but the Clean Air Act and smoke control zones can make the burning of wood illegal. The cost to approve an individual appliance is often cost prohibitive.
There is a consultation in progress with key industry bodies such as HETAS, Confor and the Woodfuel Suppliers Group lobbying to get the Act overhauled. New legislation is due in March 2013.
Our experience is that there are lots of commercial WFO's being used in smoke control areas illegally. After all, who wants a "wood fired pizza" cooked with a coal based briquette? There are only a handful of DEFRA approved WFO's, the popular ones being Wood Stone and Valoriani (Jamie Oliver).
Some of these commercial ovens do have particulate filters but many don't. Local authorities in the main are taking a pragmatic view of the burning of wood, particularly in light of impending changes in legislation. Therefore not pursuing action against those using wood. However they are taking action where there is nuisance smoke (usually down to poor fuel) being produced.
So in conclusion, yes it is illegal to burn any fuel in a smoke control area that is not on the approved list, or you can burn a fuel, such as wood, in an approved appliance. Whether it is in any local authorities interest to forge ahead with a prosecution, I suspect not, with the proviso that nuisance smoke is not being caused.
Burn rate Totally oven dependent along with time to get to temperature. Depends on the flue draft, thermal mass etc. etc. You have to try them to see.
number one issue - people put too much on!! Each oven is individual in its burning characteristics. You have to get the fuel/oxygen mix right, and this is down to the Pizzaiolo.
Comparison with regular logs. Yes they are different to use. They are used by 8,000 commercial chefs in Italy, and an increasing number in the UK. These people use them every day, and none would go back to using logs.
Watch the video and follow the instructions carefully to get the best from them. Break them up to accurately control oven temperature and amount of flame.
Carton contents 8 briquettes per box, 18Kg per carton.
Certification A copy of the certification is on every box. This is a chemical and bacteriological certification to demonstrate that these are fit for use in a commercial food environment. These are the same briquettes that are used to bake the Tesco Finest range of Pizzas as well as Marks & Spencer wood fired pizza. To enter these food factories they have to be food grade.
The carton is cardboard, the inks are all vegetable based and all biodegradable/recyclable.
Price On a single carton basis, they will likely be more expensive than your local log merchant, predominantly down to the shipping cost of small quantities. If you were to consider multiple cartons, the cost is extremely competitive. However, these are a unique product, and you will get excellent results with them. They are a delight to cook with.
Please post any further questions and I will do my best to answer them.
Mark
|
|
nef
member
Specialist WFO fuel supplier
Posts: 12
|
Post by nef on Aug 21, 2012 16:44:56 GMT
I do all the training throughout the UK for the use of these briquettes for commercial use in restaurants, and mobile vans. Using a WFO is a real skill, and qualified Pizzaioli are very well paid.
I see first hand the issues of using natural logs, and the inevitable inconsistency. It makes a difficult job even more difficult.
Now, with a big 1.8m commercial oven, there is often sufficient thermal mass to cope with the odd damp log. With a much smaller oven, such as those used at home and mobile vans, the thermal mass is so much smaller and a single damp log just kills the temperature.
The other issue is that of physical size. The briquettes will break into a size which you can judge to increase or maintain temperature. With a log, it's just not that simple.
My post is not to peddle a product, but to make everyone aware that these briquettes will make your job as a pizziaolo much easier, and hence you will be able to produce better food for your family and friends.
Oh, and I forgot to say that you'll get about half the ash of logs too!
Enjoy your pizza!
Mark
|
|
|
Post by cannyfradock on Aug 21, 2012 18:25:25 GMT
Mark Very interesting write up about Defra, Wood-fired ovens....and your briquettes. Your paragraph...... "There are only a handful of DEFRA approved WFO's, the popular ones being Wood Stone and Valoriani (Jamie Oliver)." .... didn't mention Jay Emery of www.dingley-dell.com who is the only manufacturer of modular ovens in the UK who carries a Defra certification.......I mention Jay as I use one of his Bushman ovens in my mobile wood-fired oven unit. Nice to hear from you Mark. Terry
|
|
|
Post by muddy4x4 on Aug 21, 2012 19:24:45 GMT
They sound very good, the difference I found between Kiln dried and seasoned was unbelievable ! I am game to try anything to improve my cooking ! I use a Bernito oven. As its portable, when I spoke to our Local Council, seems its the same as a bonfire ! However, if I have a fixed permanent oven I would have to comply with all bylaws etc. Any introductory offer for WFO members ?
|
|
conic
WFO Team Player
Posts: 186
|
Post by conic on Aug 21, 2012 20:28:13 GMT
Real natural wood is the best. I have been to napoli every year for years to visit family and eat loads of pizza and never seen these used, they could possibly use them in the north of italy in a resteraunt with a pizza oven or one of them ovens with a gas burner which is never as good as the traditional pizzeria.
As we have talked about fires before, part of the fun is getting it going and keeping it at the right temperature just as our ancestors did.
Give me a free box and I will try them out and give an honest opinion
conic
|
|
|
Post by spinal on Aug 21, 2012 22:14:17 GMT
conic - being Italian, I can say that if you find a pizzeria using a gas oven you would be best to avoid it! (and that's coming from a "Northerner" - Torino/Turin ) That said, I too have never seen these "logs" in use - but I can see how they can add a degree of consistency to the process, which in a commercial situation would be (very) desirable. From my perspective, if it makes my neighbors or defra happier (smoke), my wallet happier (cost) and/or my ability to eat (burn time) - all the better! I have a sneaky suspicion that once the oven it built, it'll end up like the BBQ parties.... I.e. myself and a pyromaniac friend tending the fire and cooking for everyone; but never getting to eat ourselves So something that reduces the time duties take would be good. Mark - being absolutely honest, while I'm keen to try the logs (and will definitely order a box or two as soon as the brick oven is finished) my main issue revolves around cost. If a box is 18kg, how does that compare to 18kg of kiln dried wood? Or 18kg of seasoned wood? I'm assuming (hoping) that it lasts longer, partly because wood near me is quite cheap (£35 for one of those white 1x1x1m bags of seasoned wood) and partly because I'm lazy and hate splitting logs M.
|
|
|
Post by Fat Bob on Aug 21, 2012 22:44:16 GMT
Did the ancient Romans use briquettes?
|
|
nef
member
Specialist WFO fuel supplier
Posts: 12
|
Post by nef on Aug 22, 2012 8:37:17 GMT
|
|
nef
member
Specialist WFO fuel supplier
Posts: 12
|
Post by nef on Aug 22, 2012 8:50:25 GMT
Conic
Thank you for your offer to give me your opinion of 'O Sole Mio in exchange for a free box. However, I think that 8,000 pizza chefs in Italy, plus exclusive use of the product in the 21st Campionato Mondiale della Pizza (pizza world championships) in April this year has rather made my mind up about it!
I also notice a previous post from you saying "The best one (pizza) outside of Naples I had is at Franco Manca in london who sell wood fired sourdough and it is the best." Check out what they use as their fuel.....no prizes for guessing - 'O Sole Mio.
However, I will be contacting Terry about a possible competition to win some boxes of 'O Sole Mio so watch this space!
|
|