wjw
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Post by wjw on Mar 23, 2012 5:45:32 GMT
just thinking out loud here...but assuming the oven width is 36 inches (as mine is) and assuming the "short" entry wall is six inches...and assuming the entry width is 18 inches...and assuming the "long" entry wall is twelve inches, wouldn't that offset allow a straighter shot to the cooking area, rather than having to bend so much around the entry? I realize that this is probably a pretty marginal thing, but it does strike me as something that will make it a bit easier to cook with. Then again...I've cooked one pizzia in a wood fired oven and that was ten years ago...so what the heck do I know? Either way, I'm committed now, the mortar has set up quite hard, and I'm not getting a hammer and chisel Bill
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Post by cannyfradock on Mar 24, 2012 21:46:57 GMT
Bill
Your build is coming along fine. Although the last arch of your dome is not symmetrically perfect, it is formed and is only a couple of 1/8ths out from being perfect. It won't affect it's strength in any way.
It will be interesting to hear your comments on the offset entranceway once the oven is in use.....it's not something I would do myself, as the cons seem to outweigh the pro's......
As always I love your approach to a sturdy and very well insulated oven.
Terry
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wjw
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Post by wjw on Mar 25, 2012 6:01:03 GMT
Thanks for the encouragement Terry.
Just curious, but what do you consider to be the cons about the offset entry?
I have heard some opine that the oven won't look symetrical...but the truth is that you won't be able to see any of that once the oven is done. In other words, in looking at the enclosure, the entry will be exactly in the middle of the enclosure. The only way you will be able to tell there is an offset is by sticking your head in the oven and comparing how far things go left vs right.
So what are the cons you foresee?
Bill
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Post by cannyfradock on Mar 25, 2012 12:48:17 GMT
Bill
My logic.......If it were a Pompeii, used mostly for pizza party's, then an offset entrance would make sense. I have always left a flickering fire burning at the back of the oven when making pizza's, but through trial and error a fire at the side of the oven would be more practical. Sometimes when Pizza's are too overloaded or a chocolate and banana Calzone seeps out onto to the cooking hearth.....the pizza will stick. On more than one occasion I have accidentally scooped the sticking pizza straight into the fire at the back (they burn really well!!!).....if the fire is at the side this would aleviate this problem.
Your oven looks more like a perfect oven for baking batches of bread (i.e...all ashes will be removed from the oven).....or these "micro bakeries" where people can bake enough bread to become part of local food markets. If the oven will be used for bread it seems that a bulk of your hearth area will remain redundant due to the difficulty in accessing that part of the oven with your peel.
I am not criticizing the off-set....as this is the first time I've seen it....just putting my thoughts down in text.
Keep on posting....I'm loving your build.
Terry
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wjw
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Post by wjw on Mar 26, 2012 7:42:39 GMT
No need to worry about constructive critique in my book. I'm not thin- skinned or egotistical enough to take offense...especially in light of all the great advice and encouragement I've received from you and others around here. I was just curious about your reservations. It's all good in my book and trying differnt things is a plus in my book.
If it works out, it adds to our collective knowledge base for the next guy...and if it turns out to be a mistake...it still adds to our collective knowledge base for the next guy. Either way, it's a plus.
Bill
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Post by Calaf on Mar 26, 2012 8:02:47 GMT
Bill, that's also my philosophy suummed up nicely. Just as Newton stood 'on the shoulders of giants...'
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Post by DuncanM on Mar 26, 2012 12:11:38 GMT
It is interesting to see a different take on an oven. I've had the fire at the side before and I didn't find it anywhere near as effective as if it were at the back. I think the reason for that is with the fire at the back you are getting the benefit from the heat being forced all the way over the pizza and out of the oven (heating up the middle and front of the oven too) - i.e. getting the most from the exhaust gasses/heat. With the fire at the side I'd imagine a lot of heat would be wasted from the front half of the fire because it's a lot closer to the exit and thus the exhaust is hotter when it leaves the dome. Here's where I think Bill's oven may actually help reduce that loss of heat because of the offset entrance it'll force the heat over the dome to the other side to exit and thus help capture more of that heat. Not sure if it that makes much sense
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wjw
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Post by wjw on Mar 26, 2012 17:06:21 GMT
I think the truth is probablly that a lot of this stuff is splitting hairs. I think if an oven has reasonable insullation and is built remoptely like any of the standard ovens on this site, it will cook pizza and bread just fine.
Either way, fun stuff trying to tweak one way or the other.
Bill
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wjw
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Post by wjw on Apr 3, 2012 3:49:42 GMT
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Post by Terry Hardwood on Apr 5, 2012 7:54:55 GMT
Loving your ingenuity. Necessity is the mother of invention they say
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Post by cannyfradock on Apr 5, 2012 9:54:46 GMT
Bill
Love the way your build is now starting to take shape. I like the way you have created the vent without the use of an angle iron....which a lot of the vault builds over on the FB forum have used.
I don't think I would have the patience to build "free form"....I still say arch formers are easier.
All the best with your next stages.
Terry
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wjw
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Post by wjw on Apr 6, 2012 4:07:59 GMT
Got some feed back and constructive criticism from some guys at the FB site. Got questions about how low the arch is and the fact that the throat pieces were so thin. I changed out the throat pieces to use full thickness bricks (2.5 inches) because they were awfully thin, and because that was an easy fix as they had not yet been mortared. I left the arch as it was because cutting it up would have been a hassle, there was disagreement on whether it would hold, and I pressed darn hard on it an it seemed rock solid to me. Some pics... Testing the arch It's a safe bet that I can't fit inside this thing. Dressing the joints of the throat. Close to closing it up
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Post by cannyfradock on Apr 6, 2012 18:19:39 GMT
Bill......been thinking long and hard about this.
Those guys on FB have a point. If you are thinking of just a double sleeved ss insulated chimney then your arch will be fine. If the (internal) arch is to be used for supporting half of the brick stack, then perhaps your internal arch may be too shallow a pitch to carry any significant weight. Depending on your next stage and design, you may want to consider re-forming the internal arch.
You mentioned yourself about your last arch of the vault not being perfect.......this was purely an aesthetic thing and the integrity of the vault wasn't compromised.
I might be be tempted to to take one step back at this stage than 3 steps back further on in the build........your call.
Terry
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wjw
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Post by wjw on Apr 7, 2012 15:41:59 GMT
I don't like hearing that. One guy on FB agreed with you, one guy did not. With your opinion it's now two to one.
I did plan to use brick for the lower part of the chminey (maybe four courses) and then use a terra cotta chimney above that. So it will have to carry the weight.
I've already stacked as many as nine full bricks on the apex of the arch without any indication of cracking or anything. I've already mortared in the throat and it has now set up for two full days.
I am leaning toward taking my chances and trying to construct it so that the majority of the weight is carried on the front and sides.
I'd love to hear opinions from any and all...don't worry you won't hurt my feelings...I'd like honest opinions.
Bill
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Post by cannyfradock on Apr 7, 2012 16:03:17 GMT
Bill Although I've voiced my concerns and said...it's your call, I would probably also carry on. The arch is well butrussed either side so there won't e any lateral movement when any downward pressure is on it. I'm always for using a form........until In seen these guys building freehand.. www.earth-auroville.com/segmental_groined_dome_en.php Terry
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