A question about a sourdough starter.

[Happy Baker]

OK so I have caved, and after seeing the Fabulous Baker Boys started a sourdough starter. Adding flour and water together in a kilner jar, and leaving in a warm place where I don't forget it. Now, I've been adding for a few days, and have noticed that the flour and water are seperating. I thought that having stirred it all together it should be a sort of grey sludge with air holes in it.
So, am I on the right lines, and if it seperates is it OK to just stir some more flour in?
Oh, and how much of the starter should I use, if it is OK?
And will it get a stronger flavour if I leave it overnight too?

[Paul]

Separation is down to one of two (possibly three reasons).

• The starter is too cold - ideally it should be at approx 70f - try putting it somewhere a little warmer when you next feed it.
  
• The starter is hungry - if you've been adding feed for 5 days then you should take some of the original starter out before you feed it again
  
• You could be being too aggressive with it. Mix your feed together in a jar and then fold it into the starter like you would with a souffle as you don't want to break down the carbon dioxide bubbles in the starter. Some people even fold the starter into the feed (rather than feed into starter) as you can get rid of the crud at the same time
  

Hope this helps .... Paul

[DuncanM]

Happy Baker, not sure what it looks like but thought I'd post my thoughts.

It's possible that it's not actually seperating at all, and what you are observing is infact alcohol. I experienced it a few times when getting my starter going (when it was extremely vigorous and I didn't feed it enough). Stir the liquid back into the solids, take 1/2 of the mixture out of the jar then replace with new flour/water. Do this once or twice a day for 2-3 days and if it's still alive then it's nothing to worry about!

[Fat Bob]

We also recently started a sourdough starter. For us it took 3 weeks until the taste started to kick in. No problems with separation even though our kitchen is not heated.

The flavour is interesting and enjoyable but so far not as sour as some sour bread I have tasted.

[Paul]

In 1968 my very first job was as a Management Trainee for a Midlands based bakery - Scribbans Kemp (anyone remember Kunzle Cakes' Fondant Fancies?). As part of my training I had to do dozens of different "shop floor" jobs including starting at 4am for the batch bread baking. As a result, until a few years ago, I had always kept away from bread making as I remember it as an industrial process. I did enjoy the science of breadmaking and working in the R&D department was fascinating - anyone remember Majorca Slice - I was there when it was "invented" as a way of using up failed batches of Swiss Roll. One day I'll tell you the story about a 19-year old "managing" 76 women on an evening shift making mince pies.

Anyway, to the point, there is a very good scientific paper on how a starter works (and fails) to be found here: www.breadtopia.com/wp-content/uploads/Pineapple-Juice-Solution.doc - it explains why you use a hydration method other than water to grow a succesful starter.

If you want to try the pinapple juice starter method you will find the article here: www.breadtopia.com/make-your-own-sourdough-starter/

[turkey]

that sounds amazing, I must say I just followed the recipe in Bertinet's book which was whole flour, rye and honey and water and it seemed to work perfectly well. Reading this perhaps as I used zero white treated flour gave me the best chance of success.

I like the fact you can use any size, as the method I had doubled or more the material every few days, and as it already started with a few hundred grams of flour meant I was throwing sizable chunks away just to stay in large tuppaware containers.

given this one seems so good and can be started in a modest jar I think it needs testing.

[Paul]

Mar 6, 2012 12:49:49 GMT turkey said:

that sounds amazing, I must say I just followed the recipe in Bertinet's book which was whole flour, rye and honey and water and it seemed to work perfectly well. Reading this perhaps as I used zero white treated flour gave me the best chance of success.

I like the fact you can use any size, as the method I had doubled or more the material every few days, and as it already started with a few hundred grams of flour meant I was throwing sizable chunks away just to stay in large tuppaware containers.

given this one seems so good and can be started in a modest jar I think it needs testing.

I must admit that the "normal" method seems to work best on an industrial scale where you're using a bucket and have a decent size fridge to store starters. If you want small amounts and just have part of a fridge shelf for storage of 3 or 4 different types of starter then the pineapple method, as you say, allows for smaller measures.

Or you could buy some of Bertinet's starter for £20!

[ruralidle]

I also used Richard Bertinet's method with success at the first attempt. My starter is about 3 years old and I'm happy to share it with anyone who lives in my area and would like some.

Having said that, I recently created a rye sour for use in pumpernickel style bread using just dark rye flour and (Isklar) mineral water so you could always start a rye sour and then slowly convert it to a wheat leaven. This should be easily achieved by substituting wheat flour for an increasing proportion of the rye feed, until you are feeding only wheat flour.

[Paul]

Mar 7, 2012 10:31:36 GMT ruralidle said:

I also used Richard Bertinet's method with success at the first attempt. My starter is about 3 years old and I'm happy to share it with anyone who lives in my area and would like some.

Having said that, I recently created a rye sour for use in pumpernickel style bread using just dark rye flour and (Isklar) mineral water so you could always start a rye sour and then slowly convert it to a wheat leaven. This should be easily achieved by substituting wheat flour for an increasing proportion of the rye feed, until you are feeding only wheat flour.

Do you do it exactly as he says every couple of days with 400g and bulking up for holidays etc or have you modified it in any way?