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Post by truckcab79 on Apr 20, 2018 19:10:39 GMT
Another question also. Where I have a couple of small lumps knocked out of the refractory casting should I fill them in with something like this before I close it all up?
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Post by devontiger on Apr 20, 2018 19:19:21 GMT
Looks to me like someone has given you 2 halves of 2 different castings. Someone else has more than likely got the other 2 different halves. Have you got time to ring supplier & sort that out??? Easy mistake, but annoying.
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Post by truckcab79 on Apr 20, 2018 19:40:01 GMT
Looks to me like someone has given you 2 halves of 2 different castings. Someone else has more than likely got the other 2 different halves. Have you got time to ring supplier & sort that out??? Easy mistake, but annoying. Possibly, but I’ll persevere with this one. Don’t think it will cause any issues overall and will all be hidden once fully built and clad. The casting is relatively fragile so won’t take long to chip a bit of the chimney away I don’t think.
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Post by oblertone on Apr 21, 2018 7:49:16 GMT
My flue just sits on top of the hole and is secured by a collar, therefore I'd think any depth yours will go to would be more than sufficient as long as it is supported.
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Post by truckcab79 on Apr 21, 2018 9:21:14 GMT
My flue just sits on top of the hole and is secured by a collar, therefore I'd think any depth yours will go to would be more than sufficient as long as it is supported. Many thanks. Any thoughts on the fire cement? I’m inclined to fill the gaps and damaged sections. Worst than can happen is that they fall out presumably.
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Post by truckcab79 on Apr 21, 2018 15:19:01 GMT
Onward we go. Dry-fit the three sections again following the markers of made earlier. Couldn’t commit to the fit as was so took the back section off again and shuffled it all around ten times until I was happy. There are a few vagaries that I’ll have to work around. Don’t take this ‘kit’ on if you think it will be a ‘put tab A into slot B’ build. For instance the instructions all show the front of the casting, the floor, and the brick floor all in one line. In my case this wasn’t possible to do as the three cast pieces would either have a big gap in the middle or I would have to chip lumps out of the floor as the cast floor has a raised section that the rear casting would not go past without either chipping the raised section out or being lifted up in the air, which in turn would mean lifting the front two sections up to match. After much trial and error I decided to set back the dome slightly behind the brick floor. The only think it will affect are the tiles which will need to be cut back. No big deal. Seemed like the best option. Set-back is clear here: With a whole lot of fiddling I managed to achieve a fit that I was very happy with. The instructions say to make sure that you have at least two or three people to help lift. Apart from lifting the rear half on I’ve done all this single-handedly. Inadvisable and probably downright stupid but managed nonetheless. It would be ten times easier with some extra hands! Though the flip side of that is time to think things through. Applied the adhesive / sealant stuff and put it all back on for the last time. For the sake of a couple of quid I also bought some of that fire cement and sealed the slim gap from the outside. It probably does nothing other than psychologically to me it looks more finished. Stupid I know! Then mixed up the supplied grog, fire cement and some builders sand and filled the gap around the floor bricks. Could just reach far enough back to compact it down with my fingertips. Finally, and just because I had it I filled that annoying damage on one of the dome sections. If it falls out nothing lost. Doesn’t really show up well but these are the internal joints. Not perfect but perfectly good enough. And finally, although again it makes no difference I’m sure, I smoothed out the chimney join from inside to lose the misalignment. Nobody will ever see that, but I’ll know!
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Post by devontiger on Apr 21, 2018 16:01:15 GMT
truckcab, I would still send an email to the supplier with a few photos, & see what their response is. I presume it wasn't cheap, so would expect a little compo to make things sweet again. Definitely looks like you have had parts of two mismatched kits .
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Post by truckcab79 on Apr 21, 2018 17:02:23 GMT
truckcab, I would still send an email to the supplier with a few photos, & see what their response is. I presume it wasn't cheap, so would expect a little compo to make things sweet again. Definitely looks like you have had parts of two mismatched kits . I’m not too concerned to be honest. No, the kit isn’t cheap, (though very good value compared to other ovens of similar dimensions when I researched) but the chap honoured an earlier deal, and halved the price of shipping for me so I got a fair price. It was made clear that the tolerances were to be expected in a hand made product. Only the floor being skewed was a real surprise as I would have expected that to be fairly easy to get flat. I’m more annoyed with myself to be honest that I’ve made that stupid mistake on the slabs and not realised until too late. It means that I’ve lost a little bit of height on the door opening. Still got 225mm instead of the ideal 250mm in the plans. I was still able to get my head and part shoulders in there to finish the grog pointing off, so should be big enough for a pizza! (The rest of the difference I’ve somehow lost in my last three courses of brickwork!) Perhaps I should ask him for a free door that won’t fit my reduced opening! Good job I hadn’t ordered one and intended making my own if I need one at all. As it happens the owner is aware of this thread though did say he was so snowed under with work that he didn’t come on the forum that often. Overall the kit is as I expected. Hopefully my thread will help open the eyes of anyone considering one as to what is involved in building it though. I certainly wouldn’t recommend anyone taking one on without a modicum of practical skills, and a few small building projects under their belt first. I think all those manufacture videos on YouTube showing everything slotting into place in a matter of minutes doesn’t help!
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Post by devontiger on Apr 21, 2018 17:17:35 GMT
Quote " Overall the kit is as I expected. Hopefully my thread will help open the eyes of anyone considering one as to what is involved in building it though. I certainly wouldn’t recommend anyone taking one on without a modicum of practical skills, and a few small building projects under their belt first".
I hope he reads this, as I would have been put off this kit by now.
Not a good report for such a costly item.
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Post by truckcab79 on Apr 21, 2018 18:04:47 GMT
Quote " Overall the kit is as I expected. Hopefully my thread will help open the eyes of anyone considering one as to what is involved in building it though. I certainly wouldn’t recommend anyone taking one on without a modicum of practical skills, and a few small building projects under their belt first". I hope he reads this, as I would have been put off this kit by now. Not a good report for such a costly item. Not my intention to put anyone off, and I think the term ‘kit’ is what is misleading as it is really a pre-cast oven centre and most of the raw materials to complete the job. I think if you look at is a hand-cast product with a number of tolerances you build around, then it’s a very good product. ‘Kit’ suggests it all slots together and it looks like it does in the photo. Unfortunately there are many opportunities to get it wrong, and 99% of them will be due to the builder not the product. (Exactly as in my case) In terms of price I paid a grand for this delivered to my door complete with all insulation, chimney, cowl and even a peel. If you compare that to the closest size Vitcas then that’s £1,200 for the oven alone, (normal price £2,400 allegedly on their site but I doubt they ever sell it at that), and you’ve still got to build a base. For £1k plus a couple of hundred or so in slabs, lintels and other bits I’ve got the entire oven base, surround, tiles, and almost as important virtually every single one of the bricks cut to size for me. For me that’s the difference between being able to justify buying an oven and not. I suppose the obvious question is would I buy and build this one again. The answer is definitely yes. (And read the instructions properly!) Ultimately it comes down to how willing and able you are to take on this amount of work to compete the project. Hopefully this thread will help buyers go into it open eyed, and certainly not be put off by it. I’ve loved building it and am very happy with the finished product. Incidentally it’s only as I come to the end of the project that I realise how much tolerance they also give you for making mistakes. As well as 30 full spare bricks I must have at least 20-30 half bricks left over. More than enough to cover most eventualities.
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Post by downunderdave on Apr 21, 2018 21:33:07 GMT
Looking at the inner oven it appears to be quite a bit taller than it is wide. The normal design is that the interior height of the dome should be half the diameter. ie. a hemisphere. Some ovens (Neapolitan style) actually have a lower height so the top of the dome is closer to the pizza. You may find some difficulty in getting the top of the pizzas cooked. Secondly the closeups show a lot of holes on the casting surface, which means there will also be lots of holes in the centre of the castings. This indicates insufficient vibration during manufacture. Not really a huge problem but it does produce a casting that is slightly weaker and less dense. Sorry to rain on your parade, neither of these two deficiencies are likely to cause you problems and i’m sure you’ll have a pretty good working oven. Just might be useful for others when choosing a design.
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Post by truckcab79 on Apr 21, 2018 21:48:53 GMT
Not my intention to put anyone off, and I think the term ‘kit’ is what is misleading as it is really a pre-cast oven centre and most of the raw materials to complete the job. I think if you look at is a hand-cast product with a number of tolerances you build around, then it’s a very good product. ‘Kit’ suggests it all slots together and it looks like it does in the photo. Unfortunately there are many opportunities to get it wrong, and 99% of them will be due to the builder not the product. (Exactly as in my case) In terms of price I paid a grand for this delivered to my door complete with all insulation, chimney, cowl and even a peel. If you compare that to the closest size Vitcas then that’s £1,200 for the oven alone, (normal price £2,400 allegedly on their site but I doubt they ever sell it at that), and you’ve still got to build a base. For £1k plus a couple of hundred or so in slabs, lintels and other bits I’ve got the entire oven base, surround, tiles, and almost as important virtually every single one of the bricks cut to size for me. For me that’s the difference between being able to justify buying an oven and not. I suppose the obvious question is would I buy and build this one again. The answer is definitely yes. (And read the instructions properly!) Ultimately it comes down to how willing and able you are to take on this amount of work to compete the project. Hopefully this thread will help buyers go into it open eyed, and certainly not be put off by it. I’ve loved building it and am very happy with the finished product. Incidentally it’s only as I come to the end of the project that I realise how much tolerance they also give you for making mistakes. As well as 30 full spare bricks I must have at least 20-30 half bricks left over. More than enough to cover most eventualities. Looking a t the inner oven it appears to be quite a bit taller than it is wide. The normal design is that the interior height of the dome should be half the diameter. ie. a hemisphere. Some ovens (Neapolitan style) actually have a lower height so the top of the dome is closer to the pizza. You may find some difficulty in getting the top of the pizzas cooked. Secondly the closeups show a lot of holes on the casting surface, which means there will also be lots of holes in the centre of the castings. This indicates insufficient vibration during manufacture. Not really a huge problem but it does produce a casting that is slightly weaker and less dense. Sorry to rain on your parade, neither of these two deficiencies are likely to cause you problems and i’m sure you’ll have a pretty good working oven. Just might be useful for others when choosing a design. I’ll measure up out of interest. From my vague recollection of the timber support I cut while assembling I think it was somewhere in the region of 400mm from floor to inside of top of dome. Would have been a bit more if I hadn’t had to raise the floor to cover my slab height error! The base is 750mm across. (internal cooking space) You’re right about the pock marks on the surface. They are quite few, and small, but they are apparent. Appreciate what you say about the possibility of there also being some throughout the casting because of this. In terms of it possibly being less dense it doesn’t massively concern me. It also contains ceramic pins to strengthen and also improve performance. I don’t honestly think I’ll notice the difference.....Not least because I don’t really have anything to compare it to other than the old Tesco pizza oven I originally had. Will report on performance in due course. Back to work Monday and next couple of days off will be repairing my Land Rover so work will stop for a while now unfortunately.
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Post by starseeker on Apr 25, 2018 19:34:27 GMT
Personally,
For the price you paid for this it looks like very good value for money, there may have been a couple of issues but no big deal ,if i had not already had a oven i would be very interested in one of these.
Will you be using vermiculite and cement after fitting the insulating blanket ?
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Post by truckcab79 on Apr 25, 2018 19:40:52 GMT
Thanks Starseeker. I’m really pleased with it and yes for the price I have no issue with anything I’ve had to do to get it to where I need it. As said the only real problem I’ve had has been entirely my own fault in using a slimmer slab that stated in the instructions.
If I recall correctly the next layer is regular foil, then a ceramic blanket, chicken wire, then a sort of insulated foil vapour barrier, then it gets clad with the supplied 1/4 bricks that match the finish of the reclaimed base bricks. The bricks go on with 50mm of mortar recommended behind so presumably that will also act as a little more insulation.
As said, assuming parts turn up, my next job needs to be to replace the fuel tank and outriggers on my Land Rover, so might be a short break before I continue updating this thread.
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Post by downunderdave on Apr 25, 2018 20:19:14 GMT
Thanks Starseeker. I’m really pleased with it and yes for the price I have no issue with anything I’ve had to do to get it to where I need it. As said the only real problem I’ve had has been entirely my own fault in using a slimmer slab that stated in the instructions. If I recall correctly the next layer is regular foil, then a ceramic blanket, chicken wire, then a sort of insulated foil vapour barrier, then it gets clad with the supplied 1/4 bricks that match the finish of the reclaimed base bricks. The bricks go on with 50mm of mortar recommended behind so presumably that will also act as a little more insulation. As said, assuming parts turn up, my next job needs to be to replace the fuel tank and outriggers on my Land Rover, so might be a short break before I continue updating this thread. Using foil on internal layers works well as a slip layer to prevent moisture loss from applied render to mortar into lower layers whilst also reflecting heat. Unfortunately it also works to prevent moisture loss from the inside out. This means the oven will take way longer to purge itself from moisture build up which will occur when the porous refractory picks up moisture from the atmosphere even though it may be protected from rain entry. If you must use foil then perforate it as much as possible so moisture can pass that layer.
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