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Post by allymerry on Apr 28, 2012 18:44:07 GMT
Hi, My husband and i are building our barrel pizza oven and having come to a total stand still due to the cement we are using. We have our base and have layed the first course of our barrel oven with the above cement. now as we are all aware the weather in the uk is wet, we covered these bricks with a plastic sheet. Our issue is that we have a milky slurry around one side of these bricks .... the bricks do not move the centre of the first course is filled with vermiculate insulations. Question ... has anyone built with the cement we have brought?? We have applied a blow torch (advised by Liam at KL) to cure the joint but we are worried that as we go up what if this milky slurry starts to leak onto the now layed firebrick floor?!?! Any advice and experience using this cement would be a great help. Thanks  |
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Post by turkey on Apr 28, 2012 20:12:55 GMT
do you have photos?
with that cement you need to keep the joins as small as possible, but we had a build on the old forum with similar white streaks by the sounds of things. Massive Chris was the poster, he believed it was salt from the bricks because he pre soaked them. I think he stopped pre soaking and the rest of the build was fine.
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Post by cannyfradock on Apr 28, 2012 20:24:47 GMT
Hello allymary......and welcome to the forum.
You don't say if the oven you are building is also from Liam (kilnlinings).....on many of his ovens, he has cut the bricks in an angled fashion (trapazoid cut) that the joints between the bricks are no more than 3mm in depth. In this case the fire-cement ready mix will be fine. If you are building your own oven from scratch where the joints/perps are more than 5mm thick, then a homebrew mix of 3:1:1:1...sand. cement, lime and fire-clay powder would be the better option.
It all depends on the structure of the oven. I often contact Liam for advice on refractory products, so he would be your first port of call if his products aren't suitable for your build.
If you are still in doubt......then please post again....we'll try our best to advise you.
Terry
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Post by allymerry on Apr 30, 2012 19:38:51 GMT
Hi, thanks guys for your responses. Liam for KL called and the issue was that the bricks were wet from the rain!! so we have had a brick BBQ today and re done saturdays work!!!
It as come to light that we are short on our firebricks ... i have read a few of the post on there and noticed not everyone goes with firebricks! What are your thoughts on reclaimed yellow stock bricks!? or there is someone on ebay selling reclaimed victorian house bricks??? just dont want to spend more that we have already .... also my HO wants a steel chimney, i have no clue what i am looking for HELP, please!!
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Post by cannyfradock on Apr 30, 2012 21:31:28 GMT
People have had success with old reclaimed reds, classb engineering bricks, storage heater fire bricks etc. If the yellow stock bricks are "clay" then they may work. The only problem you may have is that if you use a clay brick against a fire-brick within your Vault/barrel oven the expansion/contraction of these different compound bricks will act differently under high heat exposure. As they will not be layered between fire-bricks.....more of an extension of the fire-bricks, that shouldn't spall or "crack" on the interior, but will probably cause cracking on the exterior. This can be avoided by laying "ex-met" (a 4" roll of expanded metal (bought from the builders merchants)) over the joint where the 2 different bricks meet.
**** if the joint of the bricks is large on the outer side of your vault (more than 5mm) you may want to use a different mix to fill these large gaps. A 3:1:1:1 mix of sand, lime, cement and fire-clay powder is usually used in these situations.
Please don't despair if you can't use what is correct. We've had 100's of builds since the first forum was created and although we give advice on what should be used......we've had so many builds that have not followed the rules.......but they all work.
The cheapest option for your OH is to go on-line and type in a google search for Stainless steel insulated chimney and cowl. I've seen them for about £80......On my last build I found a ss chimney and cowl in the local non-ferrous dept of my scrap merchants for £8.
Please plod through any setbacks as the finished result is well worth the effort.
Terry
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Post by jonnycj on May 1, 2012 18:50:46 GMT
Check eBay for a stainless steel flu. Mine was 1m and costs me £12 which included the cowl on the top. Looks fab :-)
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Post by turkey on May 1, 2012 21:23:14 GMT
welcome aboard allymerry, are thoes London yellow stocks? or do they have Leicester ones also?
The London ones are all mottled and have various impurities in them which I would expect to be not good under high heat, the Victorian reds (also called pressed reds) are pure red and a single type of clay with no other bits in them so will heat evenly etc....
re low bricks, you might find local sellers on ebay with a small set of Bricks if you look semi recently, also you might well find you only need different bricks for the more external parts.
How many bricks do you have and how large are you planning to build?
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Post by allymerry on May 3, 2012 19:26:57 GMT
We need at mim. of another 30 firebricks so its worth the delivery and we've started with them so we should carry on.
Since join this forum we have had alot of ? answered by reading everyone elses questions.
our oven internal measurements are 59cm wide (not sure where 1cm went was meant to be 60? but my husband is an IT contractor not a builder, its square so a wonderful job. depth is 80cm (including the entrance).
We have just layed the floor, we have brushed in the sand and fireclay mix we used to level to fill in the gaps but is that all we need ... i thought i read somewhere about use the firebrick dust?!
dont fancy havent a sandy based pizza!!
Next job is the making of the former ..... i have some photos but they are too big. Once my OH gets home from working away i will share our progress with you all!
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Post by jonnycj on May 3, 2012 19:32:02 GMT
Keep going - it's all a learning curve and will be well worth it in the end !
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Post by cannyfradock on May 3, 2012 20:15:33 GMT
Allymerry
I used powdered fire-clay and fine sand (dry) to brush into the gaps of my fire-brick cooking hearth/floor. That crusts up really well ......any finer gaps will be filled with the ash from firing.
You will (normally) only need 1 arch former for your vault oven. This is made up of two sheets of ply or thin board held together with wooden noggins. This same former can then be re-used on the next arch of your vault build. Make the arch former slightly less than the total height required. Put some wedges under the former to reach your required height. When the arch is laid you can then remove the wedges from underneath the former to allow easier removal of the arch former.
You might also find laying the arch former flat on the ground and laying the bricks around the former prior to construction a help. This way you can put a pencil line on the arch former where you know the bricks should be laid.
Terry
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Post by allymerry on May 23, 2012 20:16:03 GMT
Hi, (sorry still no pictures ... they are all too big?!?) Anyway this coming weekend is so exciting my dad is helping my husband and the oven is about to look like one! We have the former and the additional firebricks have arrived today .... i hope i have counted right this time..... i need some help with curing times, if you would be so kind. Our deadline is the 23rd of June ... our daughter will be 2 and she loves pizza! So the arches are going to be held in place with a small amount of KL air set cement (as this stuff only cures with heat we will be warming the bricks as we build and also putting a camping stove in the oven to help cure this cement). We are then back filling the gaps in between (to keep costs down we are not cutting the bricks but going for cheese wedge gaps) with home brew fire mortar (misting the bricks so they don't drain the water) from here i need help ... do we need to leave the home brew to cure for 7 days or can we go straight ahead and cover the bricks with foil and start the concrete cladding?!?! I understand that the cladding needs to be left for 7days or so before the vermiculite layer? When do we start the curing fires ..... help i have promised pizza and there doesn't seem to be enough days!!!  |
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Post by cannyfradock on May 24, 2012 16:25:47 GMT
Alleymerry
There are 2 main types of oven construction. The type of oven that you are building is mainly built by people wanting to bake batches of bread...as apposed to a pizza party. i.e......the fire brick dome is covered in refractory concrete, then loose vermiculite is poured in when using a housing, or vermiculite concrete is used when the dome is exposed.
Most of the members here go for fire-brick dome, then thermal blanket...then vermiculite.....I mention this as people may think you are doing it wrong.......you are not. Putting refractory concrete directly on the fire-brick dome is just another way of achieving ...pretty much the same result.
Curing your oven.......this is a term often used but for the first 7 days it's purely to draw the moisture out of your oven as slowly as possible (curing only starts after 7 days)......start as soon as possible. With the dome , blanket, vermiculite method ....I would start the day after the dome is built.......first with a few newspapers and twigs.....a couple of times a day.......over a period of about a week I would gradually build up to kindling and small logs........after a week of gently,gently, start "slowly" increaesing the size of your curing firing......again perhaps a couple of times a day......at the end of the second week you should be close to a full firing......plenty of time for your 23rd June deadline.
2 things.......every oven is different so just use my guidelines....as a guideline.......the second thing....if you are covering the dome with concrete without using a thermol blanket, then wait until the concrete layer is finished before starting your curing fires.
Just remember...slowly, slowly and as often as you can.
Terry
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Post by allymerry on Jun 2, 2012 10:34:12 GMT
we have built the oven and covered it with foil and are trying to clad it ... the weight of the cladding is to much for the foil and wire and its just falling offf!!!
what can we do ... what are we doing wrong?!!?!? this is a total nightmare
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Post by scottme on Jun 2, 2012 17:19:19 GMT
we have built the oven and covered it with foil and are trying to clad it ... the weight of the cladding is to much for the foil and wire and its just falling offf!!! what can we do ... what are we doing wrong?!!?!? this is a total nightmare What are you using for the cladding? And are you applying it top-down or bottom-up? I'm finding it a bit hard to visualise what your problem is. |
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Post by allymerry on Jun 2, 2012 17:34:03 GMT
we tried to do it bottom up .... the foil was tearing the wire was popping out all over the place .... so i re read all of the blogs in traditional oven and was very pleased to learn you dont have to foil the sides only the arches. 3 more hrs later we have cladding our oven close the 3" as possible.
I can now totally understand why everyone has brought mixers ... my arms back legs fingers hurt!!! although i was wearing gloves my hands are dry ... its done now and we are on track for my daughters birthday!!
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