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Post by greensheepuk on Mar 20, 2013 19:47:37 GMT
I've just replied to your PM luke and re-posting the response here:
Hi Luke,
I'd say the chimney could be smaller, I think something around 3-4" would be fine. In terms or it's position I'd say that the chimney should be at the very front of the oven (but still in the top) ideally with the fire further back (ok if you're going to omit the BBQ section). The biggest restriction that my oven has right now is size. I have to keep a fire going to maintain good heat due to a lower than average thermal mass but invariably means that to cook larger pizzas (11-12") there's always a risk of burning and turning the pizza is more difficult.
Omitting the BBQ and having a deeper oven should solve this as the fire could be pushed back and the pizzas cooked in its place however I'm no expert on airflow in ovens and I'm sure an oven twice as deep as mine could introduce it's own issues.
I'd certainly look more into airflow of barrel ovens before going much further.
JK
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lmac
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Post by lmac on Mar 21, 2013 11:56:47 GMT
Thank you for your reply.
I'm a complete novice on all things pizza oven, but I initially saw your video on Youtube a few weeks back, then read up on this forum. It's now all I can think about!
I think I could do something similar fairly cheaply as I should be able to get all metal from work as off cuts and spares with the only main expenditure being the bricks, cement, ceramic and any accessories.
I am trying to do as much research on barrel WFO and Pizza ovens but it seems that yours is a pioneer of this type of oven (I've seena couple of thers but most are very basic).
I had thought about using the whole barrel as an oven and possibly using bricks which are 50mm, this way the pizza could be cooked deeper in the oven and also the distance from the top of the curve to the top of the oven would be reduced. This would be more expensive as I'd need alot more bricks.
Does your oven still work well? From the photos and update it looks great.
As I am by no means a pizza oven connoisseur and only experience I have is using a pizza stone in a fairly rubbish old gas cooker. From this oven all I want is to be able to cook a pizza outside in less than 5 mins so I'm hoping I can acheive that. I do like the idea of the small BBQ to the back too, have you used both together ok?
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lmac
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Post by lmac on Mar 21, 2013 12:11:40 GMT
Also, what is the heating time for your wfo? I've read alot that barrel type ovens can take a long time to get up to temperature.
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Post by greensheepuk on Mar 21, 2013 19:42:07 GMT
I think that increasing the brick depth to 50mm would be a great idea, the single biggest weakness in my oven is thermal mass, I can reach very high temperatures with a good fire but struggle to maintain them when the fire is moved to the side to cook as I have to use a smaller fire to avoid burning the pizza.
If you used most if not all of the oven's depth as the oven with 50mm bricks then you could dramatically increase the available thermal mass. Obviously you would loose some available width but this shouldn't be an issue as you'll be moving your fire to the back rather than to the side so you'll have the full oven width available for cooking.
My oven is still working great, both the oven and the BBQ sections get plenty of use. Although the wet weather is starting to take it's toll on what was a neat stove black finish, lol, it now has some rust brown highlights! The oven doesn't take long to warm up at all, I can get it up to temp in 30-40 mins if needs be but I usually heat it over about 45-50mins, but as above, once the fire is to the side and considerably smaller, I need to get cooking pretty quick!
JK
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Post by greensheepuk on Mar 21, 2013 19:45:29 GMT
P.s. I should just add at this stage that with only half the drum as an oven and 25mm bricks, this oven is heavy. It's already destroyed 1 x 150kg castor and another has buckled! So they all need upgrading.
If you're considering using 50mm bricks and a deeper oven then you're gonna need some serious structural support in and around the drum and it's frame. The last thing you want is to put all this work in and have it collapse under it's own weight!
Looking forward to your build thread!
JK
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lmac
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Post by lmac on Mar 25, 2013 14:43:16 GMT
Does anyone have any experience of using red clay bricks rather than refractory fire bricks? From looking on the web the red clay brick can be used as an alternative and a fraction of the cost.
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Post by cannyfradock on Mar 25, 2013 15:48:49 GMT
Imac I used reclaimed clay bricks on my first Pompeii.... Unfortunately through ignorance of knowledge at that time I didn't add enough under-hearth and dome insulation but the bricks get hotter than the devil's own festering ar*ehole......I would still use fire-brick if the option were there. Just a thought on JK's last comment......if you are using 50mm bricks the arch will support itself. The drum itself would just be a tin cladding. I would also try to get a thermal blanket....or vermecrete (a vermiculite, cement and water mix) between brick and cladding. Terry
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Post by greensheepuk on Mar 25, 2013 19:48:51 GMT
Just to clarify, the dome itself can definitely support its own shape once it's in but it's more about how the weight of that dome is transferred down to the frame and wheels. The last picture is probably the clearest example of what I mean. The drum, like Terry says is only really there as cladding for the oven but you can see that I'm using some steel cross-members to take the weight of the bricks and effectively 'wedge' the brick arch into the top of the drum. Ans the reason these cross members are wider than the drum itself and protrude from either side is so that I can then transfer that weight directly into the steel base frame and take the drum out of the equation. So if you go with 50mm bricks then pay attention to these elements, the brick arch will will certainly support its own shape but the oil drum alone won't take it's weight. JK
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Post by turkey on Mar 26, 2013 11:20:05 GMT
If you where going to go larger I think you might want to consider not using the barrel in its current form, ie cut the ends off and so you have a cylinder and then cut vertically down so you can make it form a wider arch (it might not be needed but might help construction), also the barrel gets thinner width wise any lower than JK's build so if you wanted to use the full depth you would need to not use that part of the barrel really. Then you can make the frame to support it all and lay the base bricks and make a regular small barrel vault oven on top, lay your insulation and then finally put the barrel skin over. You can then make nice ends and such. If you wan to bbq with it also check out www.amazon.co.uk/Best-14-inch-Cast-Tuscan-Grill/dp/B0007ZGUL6its a 14" cast iron grill that works great with coals or burnt down wood embers inside an oven on the firebrick floor. I think there are some photos on this site with someone who has one of these, edit here is a link to said post ukwoodfiredovenforum.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=justcooking&action=display&thread=701The red bricks have to be the old clay sort and not modern bricks, but I think there has been plenty of builds with them, or the other popular choice is storage heater bricks which are more common to find on ebay and reclamation yards etc.
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Post by greensheepuk on Mar 26, 2013 18:07:04 GMT
I agree completely turkey. If I do go ahead and build Mk2 of this oven before being in a position to build a pompeii then the drum will definitely be sliced and widened to make a larger oven with thicker bricks/more insulation etc. Basically a mobile barrel oven!
JK
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Post by greensheepuk on Mar 27, 2013 21:58:47 GMT
You know what, I can't believe I'm posting this but I recall a news story from around the time I was building my oven of someone who blew themselves up cutting into a drum in an attempt to make themselves a BBQ. So let me just say, if you're considering using a drum for any similar project then: 1st: Make sure the drum has only been used for oil, cooking or motor oil, doesn't matter. Some drums have only been used for food stuffs which is obviously fine, some have had multiple uses, avoid these. 2nd: Drain any remaining oil into a container and take to the tip for recycling. Then quickly degrease the drum. Take the lid off, add some degreasing agent (available from any automotive suppliers eg Halfords) with some water and roll it around a few times, then drain and rinse. 3rd: With the lid/cap still off, now you can start cutting.
JK
P.s. To me that seems like pretty basic info/common sense but every day's a school day!
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lmac
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Post by lmac on Mar 28, 2013 10:26:19 GMT
Thanks for everyone's advice. Am still at planning stage as struggling to find time and daylight hours to begin.
Thanks for the wise warning JK, always good to reiterate any safety warnings.
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