conic
WFO Team Player
Posts: 186
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Post by conic on Sept 28, 2012 21:18:38 GMT
that sounds more cleaer now and i have nearly got it..thanks,
so, imagine i throw it all away except for 100g. if i want to make a 1kg loaf of bread how much would i add to the 100g starter to be enough for the 1kg loaf and how long would i have to leave it before its ready as a real starter.
i mean can i just add the 100g starter to the 1kg bag and go through the normal bread process and let it prove for say 12hrs then before i form my loaf take away a 100g piece of dough to start feeding it again and carry on my loaf minus this 100g.
sounds like a maths lesson. if i had two apples and ate one how many would be left, hahaha
Conic
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Post by salilah on Sept 29, 2012 7:46:22 GMT
This is what I do My starter (about 200g in total but it can vary from 100g to 400g depending on when I last used it or fed it) lives in the fridge during the week. It is a very active starter though, it's about 10 years old now...
I get it out to bake - if it still looks good and lively from last time, then I will just take 100g for my recipe (your recipe might need more than this) and use it. I add 100g flour and 100g water to the remaining starter, give it a very good stir, usually leave it out for an hour or two, then the refreshed starter (now at least 200g and usually more) goes back in the fridge. The 100g of starter I took out, because it was lively, could be used straight away for hte loaf (my current default mix is 100g starter, 270g water, 380g flour and 6g salt).
If the starter is less lively e.g. if I've been on holiday, then I chuck all but about 100g, add 100g water and 100g flour, mix very well then leave on the counter for up to 24 hours depending on temperature and how it reacts - to get it back to being lively (lots bubbles, shiny surface, but still some tension in it when you pick up a spoonful). Once it is lively, I take the 100g for using for the dough, add a further 100g flour and 100g water, stir well, and back into the fridge
If your recipe needs more than 100g starter, what I'd do is take the 100g out and mix that with e.g. 100g flour and 100g water, mix well and leave that for e.g. 6 hours - so you have 300g of a leaven (again wait until it is lively - in winter, mine goes into the airing cupboard!). Then you have a choice - you can either feed the old remaining starter, or you can chuck that and keep back 100g of your new leaven to become your new mother starter. I don't usually fully replace my starter unless it has got VERY tired and hungry in the fridge - if I've left it too long and it's got a layer of black/brown liquid on top, I'll pour away the liquid and scrape back the surface, then take out a heaped tablespoon of starter from the middle of the stuff, and put it into a new container and - guess what - add 100g of water and 100g of flour, mix well and leave out until lively, then feed again and back into the fridge!
What you are suggesting above (taking a bit of hte dough and keeping back) is I believe certainly do-able, its just not the way I bake! For a start, it will have salt in it, which my starter doesn't; and also it will not be at 100% hydration (equal water and flour - most doughs are around 65-70% hydration) and most of my recipes are for 100% hydration starter...
Hope this makes sense - do ask more questions!! cheers S
PS a 1kg loaf won't be 1kg of flour - it will be roughly 600g flour and 400g water (very roughly) - if you use 1kg flour you'll end up with a loaf around 1.6 - 1.7 kg!
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conic
WFO Team Player
Posts: 186
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Post by conic on Sept 29, 2012 10:20:53 GMT
nuff said, this now makes sense, thanks. you should write an Ebook on this and sell it on ebay for £1.99, its the clearest explanation i have seen.
Conic
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Post by spinal on Sept 29, 2012 19:20:09 GMT
1, can you feed it with tap water and normal plain 00 flour or do you need bottled water and unbleached flour? I use whatever flour I have left over I've even fed it with self-raising flour and it's quite happy still. 2, when you say you "feed your starter every 3 days" how big is your starter in weight before you remove half. I don't remove half - ever After a bake (saturday usually) I have about half a glass to a glass of starter. Wednesday, I add half to a glass of flour, and the same amount of water; making a total of 1 to 2 glasses of starter. Friday I repeat, making 2-4 glasses of start. Saturday I bake, using most of it - leaving just enough to restart the cycle. 3, what is the consistency after feeding, is it like double cream? TBH - it varies. I found that I like keeping it a little thicker early in the week as it makes it easier to see the bubbles on the side, and hence know if it's ready for another feeding. Before using it, I make it a little more liquid to let it blend easier. ps, your bread looks perfect Thank you I did a bake today, and was VERY happy with the crumb, the holes, the crust. Basically, it had almost everything of a perfect loaf of bread. The only problem was that I was in a rush as I wanted to play with my new bricks; so I baked it on the same tray I proofed it on. Result? A perfect loaf - perfectly stuck to the baking tray! Doh! M.
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conic
WFO Team Player
Posts: 186
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Post by conic on Sept 29, 2012 21:32:26 GMT
thanks mate, thats interesting though so you dont have to feed it every day but wait until it starts to bubbly.
The community on this forum never ceases to amaze me, the real practical tried and tested knowledge on a wide range of subjects from long lost ancient skills to keep us fed and alive,from ancient construction to modern insulation , making and managing fires, rivergirls outstanding recipies and even some complex electronics. all i am waiting for is some quantum mechanics theory.
ps we have even had a lesson in Dragonfly Mating.
well done to terry for starting it off, there is no other forum comes any where close.
Conic
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Post by salilah on Sept 30, 2012 17:08:57 GMT
Thanks for the compliment Conic - much appreciated! I agree that this is a great forum - and yes, we all have our own somewhat different ways of doing things! I like the idea that people share what works for them...
If you want a great bread forum though, I can strongly recommend The Fresh Loaf - just read a few of the blogs there to see waht people are doing, some are amazing! and the discussion boards are also very helpful and friendly, and you get loads of recipes
S
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petec
WFO Team Player
Posts: 232
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Post by petec on Sept 30, 2012 18:35:20 GMT
Hi all, really good to read these great tips on Sourdough and starters. I started trying Sourdoughs early this summer after the kids ( teenagers ! ) bough me Emmanuel Hadrianjeou's Book How to Make Bread , for Fathers Day. Been hooked ever since. Had some great successes and also a couple of disasters using methods from Emmanuel's book and also Dan Lepard's Handmade Loaf too. I've had a few starters from scratch on the go since June now , and even had my main one in the fridge for over a month and able to revive with no ill effects. I don't get quite as much rise as I'd like yet - still a slightly dense bread vs commercial ones, but the flavours are fantastic - especially toasted ! here are a couple of pics of my early attempts for interest sake. very very keen to learn more - I have a newly-revived leaven on the go for baking a couple of loaves later this week. Cant wait to get baking in the brick oven Cheers Pete
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conic
WFO Team Player
Posts: 186
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Post by conic on Oct 1, 2012 0:08:43 GMT
Question?
I have heard of "san francisco" starter and understand that to be due to the strain of natural yeast from the san francisco area being dominant in the starter.
So if I were to take an unwashed grape from the same area i.e san fancisco, and taking the fact that the powder stuff on the skin of an unwashed grape is in fact local yeast, could i then use the grape's natural yeast and use this for my starter by mixing several grapes in with 100g of flour and 100g of water and keep it covered.
would this be also classed as sanfrancisco sourdough?
Conic
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Post by salilah on Oct 1, 2012 11:00:52 GMT
Hey Conic! The answer (AFAIK) is both "yes" and "no" - but probably more towards "no"!
There are organisations who sell dried sourdough starter - and they will sell you a SFSD starter... There are definitely unique bacteria there that seem to work
On the other hand, once you've fed your starter a few times, how much of the original bacteria might be left, compared to the amount you are adding each feed with local flour and local air?
So - there are people who believe each way! I keep two starters, both from the same "base" starter from Chicago. Sophia lives in London, Stephanie lives in Cambridge. I use Waitrose canadian flour and Allisons - so each of these is adding something different. I can't tell any difference between the starters - but I'm not that good at taste memory!
You could definitely try with the grapes, and ideally with flour from SF, and ideally with water from SF- but personaly I don't think it would stay an SFSD for more than a few months :-(
cheers S
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Post by salilah on Oct 1, 2012 11:01:38 GMT
PS cute looking breads, petec!
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petec
WFO Team Player
Posts: 232
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Post by petec on Oct 1, 2012 19:16:47 GMT
thanks Sali, trying your default recipe tonight/tomorrow so will see how it turns out. My revived starter seems pretty active after a few feedings this last 3 days so time to give it a go. Conic - really interesting questions - made me think about the SF sourdoughs a lot. Has anyone tasted the local SF bread - what characterises it ? Cheers Pete
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Post by cannyfradock on Oct 3, 2012 18:23:45 GMT
What a brilliant thread. Lots of interesting stuff and beautiful photo's to boot.
No excuse for me now as I received some sourdough starter from Spinal through the post. Can't wait to have a bash.....if I don't get the time tonight......then definitely tomorrow. I'll post pics of the results.
Terry
p.s......Cheers Spinal
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Post by salilah on Oct 4, 2012 16:19:30 GMT
Good luck Terry! remember - watch the dough rather than the clock - it can be temperamental!! S
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