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Post by Calaf on Feb 13, 2012 23:58:45 GMT
An Italian friend just reprimanded me for my pizza dough recipe. He's from Rome, not Naples, but informs me the DOC (Denominazione di Origine Controllata) for Neapolitan Pizza does not permit the use of Olive Oil in the dough. So, his doctrinal recipe is:
400g flour
250ml water
10g salt
yeast
After mixing by hand, raise for 30 minutes. Then knead until the gluten has fixed and the dough can be stretched without tearing. Set aside to rise for another hour.
Roll out 3mm thick and 30cm diameter.
Top sensitively.
I shall give it a go. |
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Post by tonyb on Feb 15, 2012 10:55:56 GMT
One of the problems with the dogmatic approach to DOC type recipes (or some conservation for instance) is that you finish up drawing an arbitrary line somewhere. So for instance, yeast as a separate product only appeared with the mass brewing industry c150 (?) years ago. Before that, bread/pizza would have been risen from natural yeasts ie sourdough or yeast-less.
Having said that, DOC does provide at least a current standard and a certain level of guarantee, though not necessarily the best product.
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Post by Fat Bob on Feb 15, 2012 22:23:16 GMT
Tony you have overlooked a major source of yeast. Yeast in past times had to be shared as it was a live product. All yeast is natural and as alcohol has been brewed for many thousands of years, yeast would be obtained by taking the live head from fermenting beer or wine. This yeast was wild and from natural yeast on the skin of the fruit.
Today, as for many thousand of years before you can ferment bread by taking the yeast from beer or wine. It is not as efficient as modern strains of yeast but hell it works.
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Post by veauifru on Feb 27, 2012 14:27:09 GMT
I am surprised there is no oil. Pizza in Italy tastes so much better than the best wood fired oven pizza elsewhere... is this the secret to Italian pizza dough...
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Post by Calaf on Feb 27, 2012 16:53:21 GMT
Veau, I have no idea. I have variously heard it said that it is "in the water" or "the air you rise the bread in" and other such reasons but I agree there is a difference to the flavour of bread in Italy.
I've never made it this way (yet) but look forward to doing so. Like Tony says, these things can become a religion if you take them too seriously. If recipes never changed we'd still all be eating raw Bison with Turnips.
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Post by cannyfradock on Mar 12, 2012 18:40:43 GMT
The omission of oil could have something to do with the amount of Pizza's and bread consumed on a daily basis in Italy. I have travelled through most of western European countries...including Italy. Italian bread is indeed very tasty, but like French bread it is sold on a daily basis .......and eaten the same day. To me the addition of oil in dough gives bread a longer "shelf life" without having to introduce non-natural products to make bread last for longer than 1 day.
I have yet to taste a baguette or "Gros pain" in the UK that taste's as good as you can buy in France......and I believe the only reason for that is that "WE" want to keep our bread for a few days....whereas in France or Italy this would be scowned upon....hence no oil.....it's not needed.
Please note.....this is only an opinion
Terry
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Post by Happy Baker on Mar 12, 2012 20:45:08 GMT
I gave up using fat or oil in my bread because it made very little difference. You're right it is there for the shelf life, but if you, like us, eat bread on a daily basis and don't make too big a loaf it makes no odds. I tend to take notice of what the OB thinks, and he's not actually noticed the difference  so now I don't add it! Simples  |
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Post by baronkev on Mar 13, 2012 10:58:55 GMT
Some breads need it for texture and some dont. It affects the crumb, moisture and spring as well as taste
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Post by Breadandwine on Mar 13, 2012 23:27:25 GMT
To oil, or not to oil... IME, adding olive oil to bread does improve it somewhat. When I used to make bread for my local WI shop (now called County Shops), I started off using vegetable shortening. Any unsold bread at the end of the day had to be collected. But when I started including olive oil in all my breads, it was decided the left-over loaves, etc, could be sold on the following day, a Saturday. So I put olive oil in most of my breads, whilst stressing to my students that it isn't strictly necessary. As for pizza...well, that's a different story! I've found that, in general, the cheaper oils - vegetable, sunflower, etc - don't add much, if anything, to a bread. With one major exception - that is, the sunflower oil from a jar of sun-dried tomatoes! My basic pizza dough: nobreadisanisland.blogspot.com/2011/02/basic-cheese-and-tomato-pizza.htmlhas this variation at the end of the post. It really does lift the pizza to another level. Cheers, Paul |
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Sherlock
valid member
Elementary
Posts: 46
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Post by Sherlock on Apr 11, 2012 11:14:37 GMT
An Italian friend just reprimanded me for my pizza dough recipe. He's from Rome, not Naples, but informs me the DOC (Denominazione di Origine Controllata) for Neapolitan Pizza does not permit the use of Olive Oil in the dough. So, his doctrinal recipe is:
400g flour
250ml water
10g salt
yeast
After mixing by hand, raise for 30 minutes. Then knead until the gluten has fixed and the dough can be stretched without tearing. Set aside to rise for another hour.
Roll out 3mm thick and 30cm diameter.
Top sensitively.
I shall give it a go. Calaf What amount of yeast would that be ??  Thanks Simon |
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Post by scottme on Apr 11, 2012 21:12:41 GMT
I don't add oil to my pizza base dough. I use a very basic mix: 1kg strong flour, 650ml water, 10g salt, 10g active dried yeast.
I make it by mixing 500g of flour, all the water, and the yeast, and leaving that to fester and bubble for a few hours at room temp. Then I add the remaining flour and the salt, knead thoroughly, and leave to prove for another hour or so.
I cut off balls about the size of a tangerine and roll out to maybe 25-30cm diameter, top and cook.
So far that approach has worked entirely reliably. Any remaining dough after everyone is stuffed gets formed into a loaf and baked in the cooling oven.
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Post by Calaf on Apr 14, 2012 14:51:19 GMT
Calaf What amount of yeast would that be ?? Thanks Simon Sherlock, I think the answer is, "sufficient". I looked up DOC Pizza dough in my Italian Cookbook and it was equally vague. If using the fast-action packet yeast I would use 1 sachet or 1 tsp of the tinned stuff. Bear in mind those rise times are for an Italian Mama's kitchen. |
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Post by DuncanM on Apr 21, 2012 18:34:18 GMT
Calaf,
Did you try the dough recipe? Just wanting to know what it was like.
Cheers,
Duncan
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Post by Calaf on Apr 27, 2012 14:22:58 GMT
Did you try the dough recipe? Just wanting to know what it was like. Hi Duncan! I tried the dough baked in a conventional fan oven. It was fine, although I slightly preferred the "with oil" version. I reckon it comes into its own when charred in a wood oven, but have yet to test that hypothesis. |
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so now I don't add it! Simples 
