Kiln Linings Veneto Build

[twobecks]

Hi guys,

I'm brand new to the forum, and am about 50% of the way through my first WFO build. I've been keeping a (sort of) diary on Facebook, link is here for anyone interested:

www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10150172511407073.301257.648367072&type=3&l=280b3ba655

There's a few sarcastic and humourous comments but I'm not sure if these will be visable.

I've also been designing the project in Google SketchUp and updating the design over time to match exactly what I've done. It's available from the Google Warehouse if you want to have a look, if you search for "Twobecks", it will bring up the models I have uploaded so far.

I've got a few questions which I'm hoping I can get some answers to, so here goes...

1) I've laid a 1.5" vermicrete layer over the top of the foil-clad calicium boards as a medium to better bed down the oven floor firebricks to. The firebricks are nice and flat, but I'm now a little worried about laying the 4 sections of cast dome on the top. Does anyone have any experience of building a dome on top of a base of this type? My main concern is compression of the vermicrete if the cast pieces aren't placed completely planar to the surface when being fitted. I don't know the compression strength of vermicrete - I'm hopeful that with the firebricks spreading the load it will be okay, but would like to have other opinions.

2) The second question is more to do with aesthetics. I'm looking for some nice lipped tiles or bricks to run across the front of the oven to act as a shelf, but am really struggling to find anything online. The ones this guy has are great, but he is Stateside: www.deltabluesfestival.net/pizza_oven.htm
Any recommendations?

I've been following the forum for some time now, and it really inspired me to start my own build.

I'm hoping to get the dome on over Easter and then to start building the surround for the dome. The cavity will be filled with loose vermiculite, and the dome possibly covered with a blanket (any benefit in doing this?). Topped with a nice pitched roof.

All drawn in SketchUp of course.

Thanks in advance for any help!

Steve

[cannyfradock]

Hello Steve......welcome to the forum.

Had a look at your facebook pics....WOW.....as a bricklayer I touch my forelocks to you on a fine job. (loved the sketchup picture next to the real thing.....exactly the same)

The desired insulation layer between fire-brick hearth and slab has always been vermecrete. The American FB forum swear by this method and although many people have questioned the integrity and strength of vermecrete to hold the weight of a dome or a vault build, I have never heard of vermacrete failing....saying that, I haven't used this method myself. I use thermolite blocks instead......both work fine.

The vermecrete layer is normally thicker than 1.5"....more like 3 or 4".....don't panic. As you have incorperated calcium board this will work fine.

It looks like Frankie G used bull nose bricks for the entrance to his oven. I used clay pavers myself.. woodovenukforum.forumup.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=851&mforum=woodovenukforum .....on my oven. Bull nose bricks and quarry tiles...bullnose and plain are available from builders merchants.

Without a roof the normal procedure is fire-brick dome, thermal blanket, vermecrete then waterproof render. With a roof you should still apply a thermal blanket then fill the void with loose vermiculite.

One last point. On your sketchup diagram the vent/chimney is inside the dome. For maximum efficiency the dome should be outside the dome or vault and created between the internal arch (which creates the rebate for your door) and the external arch/entrance.

If in doubt.....keep asking

Terry

[twobecks]

Hi Terry,

Thanks for the quick response!

With regards to the bricklaying, I have to give credit to my mate Claudio (who is also my Director of Extreme Projects). He is a building machine!

Your comments concerning the vermecrete are very reassuring - when we were mixing it up and tamping it down, I was really worried that it would be like building an oven on top of rice krispie cake! Of course, after tomorrow, I can report on the success (or failure) of this.

I'll check out what bullnose bricks and tiles are available locally.

For the SketchUp plans, I quickly drew out a dome with a chimney. Not having fitted together the modular KL Veneto oven, I didn't know where the exact position of the chimney would be. Are you suggesting that I move the chimney from its standard position and move it further forward? I was going to just assemble the kit and leave the chimney where it was...

I spoke to Liam about my build before ordering, and my dome has been cast from a heat retentive material as opposed to a insulator. I believe that the standard KL kits are designed to be externally rendered with a small amount of fireclay and then painted, and as such the standard casting material acts as an insulator (unless I've got this totally wrong). As my dome was always going to be hidden behind about 6" of cavity with loose fill vermiculite, I wanted it to retain heat for as long as possible and radiate it back into the dome - longer to heat up, but it should provide a longer sustained heat output for cooking.

I'll update the build photos as it progresses.

One point - I've clicked on the link to your build, but I'm unable to see the photos - it displays that I need to log in. Tried my username and password but no joy :-(

Roll on good weather...

Cheers,

Steve

[baronkev]

Really nice drawings and nice work there. We saw the vanetto oven on the Kiln Linings website but £1000 for an oven with the flue in the wrong place seemed a bit much to us. Can it be closed to stop the heat leaving?

The other thing is you say it is "cast from a heat retentive material as opposed to a insulator" but on the KL site says the opposite. Did you get a special one?

[twobecks]

Thanks baronkev.

I spoke to Liam before ordering and had my dome made out of KLC1400. Better heat retention than the standard product they offer, and better suited to my build as the dome will be completely encased in 6" vermiculite all around. I don't have to worry about anyone getting anywhere near the dome, so didn't opt for the standard product.

Now a bit unsure about the flue position - would like to hear some more views on this.

[Tom B]

My flue is positioned almost exactly like yours and I'm going to change position to my arched entrance so the door (now insulated) will be behind the chimney looking into the oven. I could get the oven up to heat, but the next day the oven temp would be only somewhere 50 -100deg C, and I want better heat retention. I'm going to use a refractory mix to close the flue opening in the oven body.

[twobecks]

Now the dome is assembled (I'll update my Facebook photos later - link at the top of this thread), I am happy with the current position of the chimney. Because the flue pipe extends downwards into the oven, the "opening" of the flue is actually level with the top of the entrance arch. This means that the flue isn't actually situated in the dome itself - it is just behind the arch, and extends down far enough to not extract heat out of the dome.

The only tough bit about assembling the kit was the dome cap. I had to crawl face upwards into the dome itself while 2 mates lowered the cap down. I then had to bench press it into position. Quite cramped in there!!

The vermecrete held out a treat, no need to worry at all. :-)

Next step is to fill the joints with WASC cement. Again, I'll probably have to crawl inside the dome, but I'm quite looking forward to it!

I can see light at the end of the tunnel...

[cannyfradock]

Steve.....crawling inside the oven to point the interior is par for the course.... here's a fat guy doing it........


This is Bill from California...



The position of liam's chimney come under scrutiny in our old forum, but we had 2 builds on the old forum from Liam's Modular ovens and the results were positive.

If the outlet is far down the dome towards the 63% rule of vent to height of dome, then fine.....don't worry.....it will work well.

Terry

[twobecks]

Ha - brilliant Terry!

Loving the breeze block/plank body support!!

I had to put a tarp over the build last night because the weather here is constantly on the cusp of raining :-(

I'm hoping to get some internal pointing done this weekend, but the forecast doesn't look good. Still, it gives me time to try a few designs on SketchUp for the final look.

If anyone else is interested in using SketchUp to design their build, I can upload some basic building blocks (breeze blocks, engineering bricks, lintels, and even domes if the dimensions are supplied) on the Google SketchUp Warehouse sketchup.google.com/3dwarehouse/

These can then be assembled into your own build. Takes a bit of training, but once you start you'll be hooked. PM me if you're interested.

Cheers,

Steve

[turkey]

Lovely looking build diary, and the cheeky comments are perfectly visible dont worry

Your sig is very interesting, feel free to post pics and info on all your outdoor cooking exploits, just having to google a couple now for more info...

Terry: I think I missed that photo last time arround, never knew the planking craze had hit Wales...

[cannyfradock]

Turkey

I took over 200 pics of that build but some fat guy was spoiling most of the shots so I only posted the important one's.

Terry

[twobecks]

Last weekend, I cemented the external joints of the dome, and also cemented the dome to the firebrick floor using KilnLInings Wet Air Setting Cement (WASC). Then the heavens opened, and my build has stayed under tarpaulin wraps.

Is it necessary to point the internal joints of the dome, both for the dome to floor and also for dome cast pieces to each other? The reason I ask is that access to the inside is a "little" snug... The pointing may end up taking longer than the rest of the build so far!

[twobecks]

Here's where I am at the moment - after a crappy start to the summer, I've managed to push on and get all of the blockwork complete, and get the roof trusses ready to tile.

Although the front gable isn't stretcher bond, it doesn't matter as it isn't load bearing, and will be rendered anyway.

This is the second attempt at an arch, and I'm really pleased I managed to get the same type bricks for both the arch and bullnose ledge. The pointing and screed at the front were done using some black concrete dye from Wickes.

Next step is to wait for non-rainy weather (it was supposed to be started today - then it hailstoned!) and slowly start firing the dome up over a few days. Once it's as dry as a bone, I'll loose fill the cavity between the dome and the exterior with vermiculite and then get the roof tiles on.

Can't wait for that first pizza...

Attachments:

[twobecks]

One for you Terry:

I paid a mate's son to do the internal pointing. On probably the hottest day of the year!

He earnt some pocket money, and I have a nicely sealed oven - everyone's a winner :-)

Attachments:

[cannyfradock]

twobecks.......very clever!!!

The last oven I built, I left the form in overnight and re-pointed the next day. My toes were pointing skywards for most of the time and my shoulders took 2 weeks to stop aching.

Terry